Merchants of Change

00:36:39:10 - 00:36:50:15
Speaker 1
I'm J.R. Butler, co-founder of the Chef Group. And you're listening to Merchants of Change. Oh, this is a podcast about transferring the skills and behaviors we acquire as.

00:36:50:15 - 00:36:51:08
Speaker 2
Athletes.

00:36:51:08 - 00:36:51:24
Speaker 1
Into.

00:36:52:00 - 00:36:53:00
Speaker 2
Being a professional.

00:36:53:00 - 00:36:54:11
Speaker 1
Technology salesperson.

00:36:55:01 - 00:36:57:23
Speaker 2
Each week, we'll introduce you to a top performer who.

00:36:57:23 - 00:37:04:03
Speaker 1
Will help us understand how they became professional merchants of change.

00:37:09:00 - 00:37:33:15
Speaker 2
What's up, kid? Josh? How we doing, man? I'm excited. This is our. Our our first inaugural episode. Yeah. No pressure. We got to carry this. We don't have a guest this time. So I think, John, what I would love to cover for our audience is talk a little bit about the origin story of the company that we started.

00:37:34:20 - 00:37:55:14
Speaker 2
Tell a little bit about why we picked the Merchants of Change for the name of our podcast. Make sure that people understand what the show is and who it's for, and then we can kind of hit some of the recurring topics. Now we're going to hit every episode with different guests from around the sales universe. So it sounds like a good plan to me.

00:37:56:04 - 00:38:17:06
Speaker 2
That's good. And I think for very buddy who's listening, I think in place when you talk about the place, you start with Josh. So I'm going to let you kick it off. But I should tell all listeners, it's everybody's first time. Tell us about yourself. Tell us how Shift Group came to be. What's. What's your background? Who are you?

00:38:17:06 - 00:38:41:21
Speaker 2
And I know who you are, but so I think, you know, from from a background perspective for those that haven't heard me talk about myself on other podcasts. I grew up in the Massachusetts area, Central Mass for Life, and I grew up in a big hockey household. My father was a legendary high school hockey coach for about 40 years, Marlborough High School.

00:38:41:22 - 00:39:07:07
Speaker 2
I was destined to be on the ice. I grew up playing hockey, football and baseball, but hockey was kind of always the number one choice. I was lucky enough to go away. After my first two years of public school, I got the opportunity to play hockey in prep school and because of that opportunity I got to play in college at Holy Cross was part of some great teams there, including a team in 20, 20, 26.

00:39:08:07 - 00:39:34:08
Speaker 2
Aging myself a little but that that upset Minnesota in the regional. And then one day like everybody else my hockey career was over and I was a lost puppy. And that's kind of where you were crushing, right? Pushing that, pushing and pushing. And then Holy Cross, two, four, eight years of purple. And actually my first company that I worked for out of school was also purple.

00:39:34:18 - 00:39:56:04
Speaker 2
So I did like 12 years of purple. And according to my mother, I look great in purple. So that's okay. And that's kind of where we're shift group started is back in, you know, I'd say this the summer of 28 when I was was thinking about going to law school because that's what I thought I was supposed to do.

00:39:56:17 - 00:40:15:07
Speaker 2
I was having a conversation with a guy at a bar and mall bro that knew me from men's hockey. He asked me what I was going to do. I told him, I think I'm going to go take the outside and go to law school. And he legitimately laughed in my face and he's like, That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

00:40:15:07 - 00:40:41:13
Speaker 2
You love to. I was like, What do you mean? And he's like, He's like, Listen. He's like, you're you're obviously a competitive dude. You're you're super resilient. To play Division one hockey. You had to work your butt off. You're competitive. He's like, listen, I own a tech a tech business. I'm looking forward like entry level salespeople. I think you should come and try it out.

00:40:41:21 - 00:41:04:05
Speaker 2
And then he's like, you know, I guarantee you'll make a quarter million dollars within three years. And I was kind of like, dude, I don't know, a computer, like, literally, right? I don't know anything about technology. He's like, that doesn't matter. That's not what sound technology is. I just come and I'll teach you and I'll be. I date.

00:41:04:14 - 00:41:25:04
Speaker 2
Yeah, that's. That's who this is for. You know, everybody listen to the first time you kind of hearing about his background and, you know, him growing up in Marlborough, Massachusetts, playing hockey. Some guy off the street telling him, hey, you know, don't do law schools to sell technology. So you're out there listening, like, what are these guys talking about?

00:41:25:04 - 00:41:54:02
Speaker 2
I think that's that's who this podcast is for. I think Merchants of Change, getting people into sales and aware of software sales and career and technology. I think if you told me at 18 what technology sales was, I probably would be sideways. Like, no, I'm going to I'm going to be an accountant, you know. So I think people struggling in in understanding what's available out there for careers, I think that's a that's a good that's a good background.

00:41:54:05 - 00:42:16:22
Speaker 2
You know, you start off with, hey, this is what I'm going to do. My my whole life, you just kind of stumbled into it. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I was lucky. I had, like, incredible mentors right from day one, guys that took me under my wing or under their wing, I should say, and just showed me the ropes. Right?

00:42:16:22 - 00:42:42:17
Speaker 2
Like show me what it meant to be a professional salesperson. You know, I, I compare to like my little brother his first year playing pro hockey in Ottawa and Alfie, the captain of the senators, taking them under his wing and, you know, explaining to him like, hey, this is what it means to be a pro, right? So I was surrounded by people that made me really understand that.

00:42:43:01 - 00:43:02:21
Speaker 2
Number one, you can make as much, if not more than a professional athlete do in this career. If you're a professional and this is what it means to be a professional. So I took that to heart. You know, I would love to tell you I took it to heart from day one, but I definitely didn't you know, I had it was not an easy transition for me.

00:43:02:21 - 00:43:23:09
Speaker 2
I had a lot of anger about, you know, my career being over, losing my identity as an athlete. Those things were a struggle. But I think once I really got my feet underneath me and understood that, you know, I could be a professional salesperson, that's when things really picked up for me on the on the job front and the career front.

00:43:24:07 - 00:43:45:05
Speaker 2
I spent six years at that company and I was lucky enough to be an early employee at a disastrous start up in Boston. And, you know, we went we we we grew the business significantly, you know, 100% year over year every year for six years. We did 27 quarters of consecutive year over year growth. And I got to move into leadership.

00:43:45:05 - 00:44:06:21
Speaker 2
I went from an individual contributor to a sales leader in my first three months at the company and then never really looked back. I loved helping younger salespeople find what I found in my mentors in me. That was kind of the most rewarding part of my career my whole life and was there again for probably about six years.

00:44:07:04 - 00:44:32:17
Speaker 2
I got an opportunity to be a chief revenue officer at a really early stage company. So I got to see kind of series a two to a $2 billion exit and then I got to see, you know, pre-series a with a with a founder led company. You're so you're so you're pretty good at sales. I'm all right. I think the only you find your groove.

00:44:32:17 - 00:44:51:23
Speaker 2
I got a question for you, though. So before the L.Z. example, when you were younger, like when we were hanging out at Holy Cross, even before that, like, what did you what did you think you were going to do for your career if somebody as 18, 19 year old J.R. Butler, what are you going to do for a career?

00:44:52:19 - 00:45:32:08
Speaker 2
Did you have any idea? I actually kind of did want to be a lawyer, dude, now that you asked me that, like, you know, I'm my first semester at Holy Cross. I was an econ major and I got a I got my first C ever in my entire life freshman fall semester any con because it was a math class and I was not good at math and that's when I switched to sociology and I just assumed like, obviously no one's going to pay me to be a sociologist so I can take this, which is a lot of writing, reading, etc. And I can I could probably be a lawyer and make a lot of money.

00:45:32:18 - 00:45:49:11
Speaker 2
So I think I probably thought I was going to be a lawyer. But, you know, if you asked me when I was 15, I thought I was in play in the NHL. Right? I don't think anybody else did, but that's what I thought. Okay. So yeah, I'd say I would say like lawyer was probably always in the back of my head.

00:45:50:03 - 00:46:14:13
Speaker 2
Do you think these kids like lawyers on TV? They're always interrogating people and it's like flashy or are you just like, you know, looking for a way to make money? Because lawyers. I'm just asking because my goal is to make make money. Yeah. I was like, I don't know. I think it's probably like lawyers are like, you know, they're they're handsome and wear nice suits and like, drive nice cars.

00:46:14:13 - 00:46:45:23
Speaker 2
So it's probably it was probably the money thing. And I do like the idea of like I've always been pretty good with people, like interacting with, with other humans. So I thought that that skill would pay off as a lawyer for sure. Why? Why, why did you always want to make money? Like, how did that motivate you? But like, I just remember there were certain times growing up and I didn't grow up too far from you down in Massachusetts, where I was just I saw it kind of limitations around money.

00:46:45:23 - 00:47:07:24
Speaker 2
You know, you could get into certain different types of hotels or different events if you had more money. And I was always attracted to like, I don't want to have limitations with things, you know, like it was big picture stuff for a young kid. But I was like, you know, if I could find a way to make a lot of money, then I can I can go over there, I can buy that and I can do that.

00:47:07:24 - 00:47:26:21
Speaker 2
So it was more like, how can I enable myself? And it is funny, but to your point, like when I was young, I was like, Yeah, I'm going to be a doctor. Like I was like, I'm going to do med school. And then I was like, Maybe I'll be in finance or accounting. Does that seem like a lot of money?

00:47:27:11 - 00:47:46:16
Speaker 2
You know, I really didn't care. I was lucky enough to kind of be a versatile student and I had to pick where I wanted to play, but I just wanted to make money. I had if you told me I was going to be selling technology to businesses, I would have been like, No, that doesn't sound like anything I would ever do.

00:47:47:04 - 00:48:10:05
Speaker 2
Well, well, we've gotten up to the point in my career where, you know, the whole shift group thing started. Before I go into that, why don't you talk a little bit, John, about your journey. So like you haven't been in sales as long as I have, then you're probably at like 35 quarters compared to my 55, but still alive.

00:48:10:16 - 00:48:34:16
Speaker 2
But can you just talk about like, you know, I remember when you made the transition, can you talk about your journey from Holy Cross into the into the working world and then into sales? Yeah. So everybody listening out there, I'm, I'm currently based in Toronto, but I grew up in Massachusetts. Not far from there, I went to Holy Cross, I played football for a few years there not not too long.

00:48:34:16 - 00:48:57:08
Speaker 2
We weren't that good and it was a lot of work. But I played, I think, defensive line and I didn't think I was going to go to the NFL. So I spent most of my time thinking about what I was going to do after college. And Holy Cross is a big economics, schools, finance, accounting, lawyers, doctors. It's it's a liberal arts school.

00:48:57:09 - 00:49:18:24
Speaker 2
But it's it's very the alumni are very focused in that area. And so a lot of my friends were like, Yeah, we're going to work on Wall Street. I was like, That sounds like a great idea. So I focused on economics and I was pretty good at math. But I also, just to that point, wanted to make money.

00:49:18:24 - 00:49:43:04
Speaker 2
So I graduated thinking I was going to go to Wall Street. And it turns out a lot of our buddies at Holy Cross actually already had connections on Wall Street or family members on Wall Street. I did not have that at all. So swinging your resumé out to these financial institutions during the worst collapse in the world's history in the economy?

00:49:44:05 - 00:50:12:16
Speaker 2
Maybe not world's history, but yeah, the financial crisis of 2008 2007 just killed me. I was walking around town applying to banks, and they'll be doing this building where we're closing tomorrow. Actually, we don't it three more days. They're like, Yeah, we're sorry. We're going out of business and we're super regulated. So I was that guy. I actually worked in a liquor store in my hometown, and so sorry about that.

00:50:12:16 - 00:50:28:07
Speaker 2
But I was I was in this liquor store and a few months later, a woman was in there talking about how her daughter just got accepted to Holy Cross. And I was like, Oh, I just graduated from there. And she was like looking at me as the cashier. And she was like, no, it's no, it's a it's a it's a good school.

00:50:28:07 - 00:50:49:13
Speaker 2
And I was like, Yeah, no, I know. So, yeah, I'm sitting there in the Holy Cross the grave, which in the nineties you graduate, you can go to Wall Street, whatever. And during the financial crisis, it was it was tough. So I got a job in a day. I started going to work at a bank in Central Bank in Boston.

00:50:49:13 - 00:51:12:21
Speaker 2
And I was taking the bus that night over to UMass Boston to do my MBA. And, you know, all the latest glamor, finance wasn't there for me. It was like after a few months of just doing spreadsheets and reports and printing out PDFs and analyzing data, I was like, I just want to talk to people, you know? I just like, Why are we talking to people?

00:51:12:21 - 00:51:48:02
Speaker 2
We're just doing numbers. So it took me about five years of doing finance in banking until I actually was exposed to other people, my friends, my brother, my cousins, all these people selling software. And I thought, okay, you know, J.R. and a lot of my friends are like, What are you doing? I am in banking. So I was at this point where I was like, Wait a second, I just did my MBA sit in this part is finance, finance, accounting, accounting.

00:51:48:19 - 00:52:19:16
Speaker 2
And then I had to quit and I was like, this is this is hard. So I think where you got it, where that guy appointed you to software sales early on, for me, it was like a mid-twenties career change. And for those are you listening that aren't in college or aren't about to apply to their first job? If you're in a career like it's totally normal, it's totally normal to make the change in 1999, you have to sit at the same company for 20 years in order to have that credibility.

00:52:19:16 - 00:52:44:04
Speaker 2
But in 2022, totally normal to make your career transition, the the average person changes their career seven times in their life, not their job, their career. So you're absolutely right. 100%. Yeah, it's a it's a big it's a big thing when you think about it. You know, it gets to you. I was like, should I quit? If I was, should I do this?

00:52:44:04 - 00:53:00:23
Speaker 2
I remember taking an entry level sales job and I was like, I don't know. I don't know if this is the right time to resign. A lot of hesitations. Did you get did you get the first job you interviewed? So I don't know. What was that like? What was the interview process like? How did you go about it?

00:53:01:10 - 00:53:30:06
Speaker 2
So here here I am working at it at a bank and I go out to my car and I take a phone interview with a sales manager talking about selling hardware time. So take a division of a software company that sells the actual machines. I have no idea what to expect and I got in the car and started talking to this sales manager and I'm just like, Yeah, you know, no, I don't like firing.

00:53:30:07 - 00:53:59:24
Speaker 2
So it's terrible. And I heard sales is way better from an MBA. You know, this GPA like I'm taking my CFA series seven, whatever they throw in all these certifications and buzzwords that the sales manager and I have no personnel, no excitement. And he was like, Hey, so are you ever going to sell? So actually it's funny you ask that because I probably called you.

00:53:59:24 - 00:54:17:04
Speaker 2
I definitely feel like my brother and some of my friends and like, Can you help me? And I called some people in sales and I was like, What? Like, how did I have a masters? How did I not give this interview? But it turns out like that whole getting a sales job is totally different. It's totally different from other jobs.

00:54:17:04 - 00:54:48:06
Speaker 2
You're evaluated. Different, different mindset. Sure. So so so your your first gig, you went right to a big company, right? Yeah. Yeah. I worked at a major Fortune 500 company selling software and it and it was entry level. And I was the older I was the older person in the, the group of entry level salespeople. But yeah, I actually I kind of really, I really enjoyed that route.

00:54:48:06 - 00:55:09:06
Speaker 2
I didn't plan on that. But having been a customer, somebody who used software learning a little bit more about the finance industry, it actually helps me in my sales career. And when I was able to take that and spin that in the interview and say, hey, actually have real world experience, let me tell you why it matters and be positive about making a change.

00:55:09:06 - 00:55:33:20
Speaker 2
I think that was well-received. It took me about three, three or four interviews to get that first shot. And how long before you were on the scene, before you were like, this? Is it like this is what I want to do forever? Oh, it was. It was for me. It was on is very clear. Like I remember I joined and I sat down and they said, Yeah, so you're supposed to call a 30 people a day.

00:55:33:20 - 00:55:51:18
Speaker 2
And at the time at the bank I was working out of 500 people a day. So I was like, I talked to a manager. I said, So what do I knew? And I'm done with the 30. You said, You're done for the day. And I said, I'll be done at 930. I said, I get like, this seems easy and it just, I don't know.

00:55:51:18 - 00:56:17:06
Speaker 2
I felt like it felt like almost like too good to be true. I didn't feel like I was, you know, grinding over variance analysis and interest rates. I was calling people on the phone and asking them they wanted to talk to you. I just felt it felt very natural. Yeah. Yeah. I think like you're you're calling with a solution to a potential problem that they have.

00:56:17:06 - 00:56:38:09
Speaker 2
And it's really about, you know, one thing I liked about it is like you can figure out together pretty quickly if it's worth either of your time to spend more time together in order. I'm saying, like, you either have this problem that we solve and are and it's big enough of a problem that it's worth spending some time figuring out if we can help you solve it.

00:56:38:18 - 00:56:58:01
Speaker 2
That was like the thing that I always loved about it is like, you don't really waste you, you know? You don't really waste time necessarily. You know what I mean? Yeah, you don't waste time and you just just cut to the chase, you know, it just it was like there's so much nonsense out there about this. It scared the daylights out of me.

00:56:58:01 - 00:57:20:16
Speaker 2
I was like, you know, and finally, sales jobs and people like, well, you've never closed 81. And I was like, Well, what do you mean? Is this something I was researching? How do I close people? You know, you hear this the the the, you know, the buzzwords and the social media, you know, sales experts are like all kinds of like they they make it sound very challenging.

00:57:20:16 - 00:57:52:14
Speaker 2
You know, you have to do this. You have to do that. You have to do this and you got to have balance and you got to do this. And and they made it sound like it's some crazy thing that you have to understand. But to me, when I got into sales, I was like, this is just connecting people and talking sensibly about something and getting them to write their name on a contract, you know, I think, like, it comes down to, you know, becoming it's like anything, right?

00:57:52:14 - 00:58:13:24
Speaker 2
If if I'm going to give you advice about something and this doesn't really actually happen in today's world with social media because everybody thinks they're an expert, but like true and expertize is becoming a subject matter expert in a in a specific area and then using that expertize to to me to help people make decisions. That's really what selling is, right?

00:58:13:24 - 00:58:42:03
Speaker 2
It's like, you know, there are a lot of, you know, especially on LinkedIn, these influencers out there that think they have the magic silver bullet of like how to sell and how to be a great salesperson. It comes down to like anything else, it's hard work on becoming an expert and getting really knowledgeable about the problem that you solve, how you solve it uniquely, and why that problem matters to the person you're talking to.

00:58:42:05 - 00:59:17:21
Speaker 2
Depending on the company, they're at their title, the industry that they're in. If you do those things and you have a human conversation with somebody you can sell, I think anyway, I. I couldn't agree more. If you're out there listening, like, who are these two guys from Massachusetts talking about marriages, you change podcast. If you're out there wondering what to do next and you stumble upon this like this is what we're going to be doing is talking to guests who are sales professionals, very successful in their careers and normal people.

00:59:18:07 - 00:59:37:23
Speaker 2
We're going to be talking to normal people. There's not there's no nonsense here about, you know, you have to do this, do that. You know, it's just we're going to be talking to normal people and how they're making six, seven figures selling software and how you can do it, too. And it's really there's really no rocket science involved.

00:59:38:07 - 01:00:12:24
Speaker 2
I don't know. Is that is that a good I mean, you may overselling it, but. No, no, I think you're right on. Like, I think it's it's not it there's no special certifications here needed. There's no like, you know, like there's no right or wrong way. It's it's about, you know, bringing bringing to bear the characteristics that make anybody great at anything hard work, you know, intellectual curiosity, resiliency, like those are the reasons why people have success.

01:00:12:24 - 01:00:37:02
Speaker 2
Right? And some people have a little bit more. And I'm one of these people that because they picked the right company to go do it at right. Like that's really that's really as simple as it gets. Like, you know, great salespeople. There's great salespeople at every company. It doesn't matter. There's people that are subject matter, experts that work with their customers in a great way, that have a great sales process or methodology.

01:00:38:10 - 01:01:04:19
Speaker 2
And you know that those are the people that we want to go out and talk to and learn from them, how they found the career, how they found success, what areas they think that the younger folks and the people newer to the industry should be thinking about as they move into their career. I think that's what it's all about, is told in if you're in sales and you're listening, you should already know this, but you can get better.

01:01:05:10 - 01:01:32:24
Speaker 2
I tell this to people all the time, just because you're in sales and you sold a bunch of software, you sold a bunch of real estate, whatever it is, you can constantly get better. And I have to challenge myself. I know you do this better than most people, but I challenge myself to like, read books and listen to podcasts and watch videos and, you know, tighten up my sales process and tighten up my sales game because, yeah, you close, you know, $500 million in a deal, that's great.

01:01:32:24 - 01:01:56:23
Speaker 2
But you still have to go and close another deal next quarter and you're going to see different things like I don't think people understand that is is like if you're good at sales, yeah, that's great. But there's going to be a new technology in three years that you've never even heard of that impacts your business. So you have to always be brushing up on your game, just like an athlete, always be practicing learning.

01:01:57:03 - 01:02:14:09
Speaker 2
I think that's what a lot of sales people get wrong. So if you're looking to get into sales, this is a good podcast. But if you're in sales and you're just looking to learn what other successful salespeople are doing to stay fresh, I think it'll also be a great learning experience. That's a good transition to to shift group.

01:02:14:09 - 01:02:45:14
Speaker 2
John So I think it was 2019, you and I were talking a lot and you were you were kind of starting or in the middle of writing your book, right? Do you want to can you just talk a little bit real quick about like the books? Like, like so I wrote a book about it. So yeah, for everybody listening, I wrote a book called How to Get a Sales Job.

01:02:45:14 - 01:03:11:24
Speaker 2
Based on my experience transitioning from finance to software and everything I learned in between. So I was sick and tired of explaining myself on phone calls or emails to people who were like, Hey, how did you get that sales job? How do you get into sales? So I just wrote it down. And then, you know, after a few years of sending out emails on how to do it, I just put it into a book and it's on Amazon, how to get a sales job.

01:03:11:24 - 01:03:33:13
Speaker 2
And I was writing that right around the same time we started talking about I guess we're or I don't, I don't really remember how we started talking, why I was I was so I've been getting phone calls for literally 15 years from my hockey buddies. Like being like, you know, J.R., you're not that smart. You make a lot of money to help me get into tech sales.

01:03:33:13 - 01:03:57:22
Speaker 2
Right. And and I was I started seven use some kids, too, because I knew you were writing the book and you know, we said menu. So we're like, listen, dude, like we're giving these guys some awesome advice and we're helping these companies find some awesome candidates. I think there's a business here and I think we we bought the chef group domain in like May 2019.

01:03:58:24 - 01:04:20:18
Speaker 2
When I first moved to Arizona, I remember sitting at a cigar bar, cigar bar in Scottsdale, smoking a stogie and like setting it up on GoDaddy. I just said. And then and then we were like, All right, let's, let's try to help a bunch of kids for free. And I think we set a goal of like ten kids.

01:04:20:18 - 01:04:42:11
Speaker 2
And I said, once we do ten kids, you know, this, this could be a business. And that's kind of how I, that's how I remember it. Yeah, that's yeah, that's that's it wasn't anything more than that. I think my, my book was either in progress or already already out there. And then you are naturally helping people. I was naturally, naturally helping people.

01:04:42:11 - 01:05:04:11
Speaker 2
And, you know, I like to think I have a big network, but then I talk to you and I'm like, Oh man, I need to meet more people. But I think have a naturally having a big network. It was, it was I keep saying it actually, but it was a natural progression. You both had large networks been successful in sales and people are asking us, Hey, how'd you do that?

01:05:04:20 - 01:05:28:07
Speaker 2
I took the academic approach to putting it down on paper, and you were just doing it word of mouth and helping you helped a lot of people. So when we put it together, now you have this business, this model where we're helping people make that transition. And when you told me, Hey, I'm going to college, I was like, That's a great name.

01:05:29:08 - 01:05:53:07
Speaker 2
This is a solid name and it might actually work. So yeah, I think that's a it's a very organic store, 100%. No, I remember our first business model. Do you remember that the pricing page that I built there was like you showing a PowerPoint one time and I was like, this is like college athletic scholarship, have a minor league contract.

01:05:53:10 - 01:06:15:22
Speaker 2
You could go. We were going to chart, we were going to actually charge people to help them get jobs. We didn't even think about the other side of the market where companies paid the agencies like ours all the time for great candidates like them. Original. I think we might have charge one kid dude, we should probably call that kid.

01:06:15:22 - 01:06:37:15
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think we were both kind of like, okay, we're both helping a lot of people get jobs. Maybe they'll pay us. But that's not our recruiting. That's not how it works. So yeah, you you know what's funny is I'm 99% sure, you know, but I think the first person we replaced was randomly Holy Cross. Holy Cross Athlete.

01:06:37:15 - 01:06:57:24
Speaker 2
Yeah. After we incorporated the company. So, you know, we were doing it for free for a while. And then finally, like through COVID, I was we're both getting super busy because so many guys were retiring from pro sports at the same time, but I was like, Dude, we're going to incorporate. You went and got the LLC and we went live.

01:06:57:24 - 01:07:21:10
Speaker 2
We like publish the website, so like public consumption and we're like, All right, how do we find solution? And then we ended up with a Holy Cross football player right on our doorstep. He was the first kid we ever place. And then, you know, that was July, I think July seven of 2021. And, you know, it's pretty much due to rocket ships.

01:07:21:15 - 01:07:48:08
Speaker 2
So it's like, yeah, it feels like a bit of a blur with especially, you know, the pandemic during this. And you know, you're out Arizona, I'm in Toronto but yeah. So you know, I think I think if you're interested in in getting into software sales and you have an athletic background, a student athlete, former retired professional athlete, like I would reach out immediately.

01:07:49:00 - 01:08:14:06
Speaker 2
And we've had some crazy success stories and very interesting backgrounds. I remember talking to a girl who didn't qualify for the Olympics and then was told to get a job and other people holding out on interviewing for a role because they're in the NFL draft. And like, it's just it's been a it's been a crazy year and a half.

01:08:14:06 - 01:08:40:14
Speaker 2
But yeah, a lot of folks working in retail or selling fitness, fitness subscriptions, gyms, things like that. Absolutely. A lot of people working gyms or coaching sports, I don't know. I found that to be like, you know, a couple of people I talked to, somebody went to one of the military academies. It was a coach. And I was like, look, if you graduate from a military academy, I'm sure you can sell software to somebody.

01:08:40:14 - 01:09:05:09
Speaker 2
And so we're out here trying to make this podcast to spread awareness. And I think these episodes will be good. I think it'll be really good for especially for younger people that are like questioning what to do next. Yeah. And, and I just want to hit on real quick before we, before we wrap up this first episode, the name of the podcast that we chose.

01:09:05:09 - 01:09:30:13
Speaker 2
So Merchants of Change, right? There's a guy I talked about mentorship, right? And mentorship being a huge part of my career. And one of the reasons that I that I start that I think we both started the company is because we enjoy that like we enjoy helping people and being mentors. So my, one of my biggest mentors is this guy, Jim McInerney.

01:09:30:23 - 01:10:01:05
Speaker 2
He was a he's the guy who brought me over to Turbo early days. He helped build out like a world famous inside sales program at EMC. He's gone on to a couple other like absolute winners from a company perspective, and he always had a side behind his desk called Merchant of Change. And the reason I got the okay from him to name the podcast, that is because I always stuck with me because I always thought of myself as a merchant of change, right?

01:10:01:05 - 01:10:27:03
Speaker 2
A merchant is a person who trades in commodities produced by other people they trade with like foreign countries. They're involved in business or trade. You know, they merchants have been around. You know, it's one of the oldest professions in the world, right? It's as long as industry, commerce and trade have existed, merchants have existed. And and that's what salespeople are merged right now.

01:10:27:03 - 01:10:56:05
Speaker 2
What you're actually selling, in my opinion, in software is changed, right? Like software is changing the way that people do their job, the way they interact with the companies they work for and the companies they buy stuff from. So what you have to do as is as a salesperson is you have to go in and you have to convince people to change their business as usual, to change the way they're doing things.

01:10:57:20 - 01:11:23:20
Speaker 2
So the name is really in honor of Jim, but it's also like the idea that, you know, getting into this career, you're becoming your own version of change, right? Like that's what I think. It's a super powerful name and I love that he let us use it. But I think that that's going to be a recurring theme in every episode is talking about like, you know, what's your approach to convincing people to change?

01:11:23:21 - 01:11:44:12
Speaker 2
Because that's really what sales is, you know what I mean? I love it. And I actually didn't even know that I this I saw you name this podcast and I was like, Oh, this is great game and nasally. But hearing that is like it is good to hear where it stems from. But for for everybody is kind of like thinking about this.

01:11:44:12 - 01:12:10:16
Speaker 2
Like that's, that's very powerful because think about it, like you're looking for a career, right? Everybody looks for a career. You know, people have all kinds of ideas about what happens in a career. But selling technology is an age old profession. It's been happening for thousands of years. And people have been trying to sell, you know, all kinds of different technologies, hours to shop and time to be software.

01:12:10:16 - 01:12:36:13
Speaker 2
But I think Henry Ford says convincing people to ride into automobiles versus horses is selling. And technology and technology is always going to change. I don't care what people think like this is it metaverse 1.3. or whatever it is. No, that's going to be old news in a year and a half. Just laid, just like AOL, just like a CD player is like it's all going to be it's technology's evolution.

01:12:37:03 - 01:13:01:13
Speaker 2
Sorry, technology is exponential, which means you're always going to have something to sell. You're always going to have value to bring. If it stops, we're going to have bigger problems. If technology just stops and innovation stops, the world is going to just end so, you know, dire. So the first the first tech sales guy is that caveman role in a whale out of the cave and being like, look at this thing.

01:13:01:14 - 01:13:24:18
Speaker 2
I think that this thing could be valuable. That's the first sales guy. That's our logo, dude. That is logo. And then you got the guys in the eighties and 90 selling mainframe hardware saying This is the future, it's never going to get better. Now, you know, Microsoft's out here saying you don't need hardware to put it in the cloud.

01:13:24:18 - 01:13:46:04
Speaker 2
It's like, that's going to be old news so quickly. You're going to have to learn and think on your feet. So, yeah, it's a it's a very challenging career, I think, you know, because you always have to be learning and you always have to be challenging yourself to to keep up with the technology. But I mean, man, if there is career safety, I think technology is a safe bet.

01:13:46:04 - 01:14:13:10
Speaker 2
Just look at the stock markets now. The trillion dollar companies, they're not like retail stores. It's technology. Well, listen, the good news for everybody is they're not just going to have to listen to you. And I chatter all the time. We're going to bring our guests every week. And we're just going to we're going to talk about, you know, their their their path to sales, the things that they think matter and like how they show up every day as a merchant of change.

01:14:13:10 - 01:14:34:03
Speaker 2
So, John, this is exciting. Dude, I'm pumped, obviously, as always, to work with you. And this is going to be fun, man. Thank you. Okay. I will keep them fun, too. I know we're just talking about the podcast right now, but I think you kind of interrogating people is going to be pretty fun to play areas. Awesome. All right, buddy.

01:14:34:03 - 01:14:38:05
Speaker 2
Have a good time. Stay warm up there in Canada, kid. All right. Later, maybe again.

01:14:40:10 - 01:14:56:23
Speaker 1
This wraps up this episode of Merchants of Change. If you enjoyed this episode, the most meaningful way to say thanks is to submit a review wherever you listen to podcasts. If you're interested in working with us, please come find us at WW Dot Chef Group Dot I.