Merchants of Change

00:00:03:23 - 00:00:28:15
Speaker 1
I'm J.R. Butler, co-founder of the Shift Group. And you're listening to Merchants of Change. Oh, this is a podcast about transferring the skills and behaviors we acquire as athletes into being a professional technology salesperson. Each week, we'll introduce you to a top performer who will help us understand how they became professional merchants of change.

00:00:33:05 - 00:01:05:12
Speaker 1
What's up, kid? How are we doing? What's up? Good, good. How are you, man? Good, man. I'm fired up. We got an unbelievable guest today, actually, in our pre pre shift group little story. And one of the guys that kind of set the tone for the business. So today we've got Colin McDonald. Colin has been on the sales team at Recorded Future for a year and a half, spent 30 years playing pro hockey, 148 NHL games, tons of games in the American League.

00:01:07:04 - 00:01:20:03
Speaker 1
Willie Marshall Award winner, most regular season goals in the NHL in 2010. And he's a former Providence College friar. So we've got a fellow Jesuit with us, John.

00:01:20:03 - 00:01:23:00
Speaker 2
And a New England guy. New England guy. That's right.

00:01:23:01 - 00:01:47:07
Speaker 1
That's right. The famous coyotes of the old man. The old wagon, e.g. NHL Offensive Player of the Year award and league MVP honors. I think you did it exactly, exactly. Six years before my brother Bob got the same the same award. And he comes from a long line of hockey players. His old man played for the well call.

00:01:47:08 - 00:01:49:13
Speaker 1
And thank you so much for joining us today, buddy.

00:01:50:13 - 00:02:04:06
Speaker 2
Yeah. Now, it's been great that we were talking off air previously, how you and I were kind of able to reconnect. Ever since my change in career. So, you know, I feel like we've officially come full circle now that we're on this podcast.

00:02:04:08 - 00:02:22:00
Speaker 1
200%, man. 100%. So, e j to Providence. What are it like? Growth like that, that New England hockey, some of those memories. What what are some of the best memories you have from from those days, those those Edge and Providence days?

00:02:23:01 - 00:02:47:08
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, I mean, to get into it, you know, you grow up just playing for a love of the game. You're not really thinking about turning into a career. Mike Hockey Career really started to kind of pick up speed when I was with the Coyotes and I think my name was kind of on the radar of not only colleges but of NHL teams.

00:02:47:08 - 00:03:11:12
Speaker 2
So that's when I really kind of kicked it into high gear and thought, Hey, I can maybe make a career out of this. I was fortunate that I, I, I would say I had my pick of schools. I had a lot of schools interested and just so much fun kind of being able to go down that interview process, that recruiting process of those all the schools I grew up watching and yeah, I mean Providence just seeing that.

00:03:11:13 - 00:03:29:15
Speaker 2
Check off all the boxes for me close to home, of course. Small school which I enjoyed that by. I believed in what they were doing there. It wasn't the premier program that it is now, but I'd like to at least I'd just tell myself this. I hope I was a small piece of that puzzle to where they are now.

00:03:29:15 - 00:03:37:06
Speaker 2
And, you know, obviously get that playing time there as a freshman really helps kind of transition me to the pro.

00:03:38:03 - 00:03:47:04
Speaker 1
I have to imagine that the official visits back then included a trip to prime time. Is that is that a fair assessment or one.

00:03:47:21 - 00:04:18:15
Speaker 2
Is this where we take the recording off? Is ours for us? Yeah. It's funny because at the time Providence was a 3 to 1 early guy ratio. And, you know, I was so focused on I really wasn't I really wasn't worry about that. Of course, I'm with my mom and dad there. And it was just funny because we laugh about it now about like my assistant coach, David Garrard, he kept saying, hey, you know, just so you know, it's 3 to 1 girly guy ratio here.

00:04:18:23 - 00:04:36:10
Speaker 2
My mom's like, what? What is going on? You know? And I'm just kind of like, you know, oh, I think I was, whatever, 16, 17 at the time. But like, yeah, like where do I find, you know, pretty straight, pretty funny story. We can laugh about it now, but at the time my mom didn't get the best vibe.

00:04:36:10 - 00:04:40:06
Speaker 1
Yeah, he he couldn't use that when he was coaching at Holy Cross, unfortunately.

00:04:41:11 - 00:04:43:08
Speaker 2
Yeah. Oh, no, of course not.

00:04:44:09 - 00:04:46:05
Speaker 1
That's unreal. So.

00:04:47:07 - 00:05:12:14
Speaker 2
Were you thinking anything about school and and what you were going to study? Were you just pure hockey? When I was pure hockey, but I will say that neither of my parents have college degrees. So it was very important to them that I not only went to school, but that I finished school. So, you know, my mom never really had opportunities to work because of that lack of a degree.

00:05:13:09 - 00:05:38:15
Speaker 2
My dad did go to school but never finished. So that was really important to him that I first I'm the first born in a family. So, you know, as you can understand, kind of using me as a precedent for a younger brother, younger sister. So, no, I wasn't focused on school. But as far as like going Major Junior, you know, I don't know what Bobby's options were, but it was never really an option for me.

00:05:38:15 - 00:05:41:04
Speaker 2
I was focused solely on going to school.

00:05:41:04 - 00:06:05:00
Speaker 1
Yeah, we, we definitely share that in our background. Another thing we share is like and you see it a lot like I coach youth hockey now and there's not as many parents that are hockey people. Right. So it's interesting. But obviously you had to you had to your father played professionally and then I think it offers a unique experience as a hockey like, you know, people think a hockey parents is crazy.

00:06:05:00 - 00:06:25:22
Speaker 1
But I think for me, having my father as a hockey guy, you know, there wasn't like any calls to the coaches if I wasn't playing, you know, there was it like, you know, what did you know? What did you do, coach? It was always my fault, right? Like what? What kind of what kind of hockey dad was your dad coming out of, you know, playing for the will?

00:06:26:21 - 00:06:54:00
Speaker 2
I mean, as you know, when you're growing up, you're so naive to that. Like, he was just my dad. I mean, looking back, I thought he handled it so well. So he was not that overbearing parent. Hockey was strictly a winter sport for me. So I did soccer in the fall. I did baseball spring and summer. Of course, as I got older and got, you know, I was progressing ahead of other players, I knew that kind of really honed in on hockey.

00:06:54:00 - 00:07:10:17
Speaker 2
But growing up, you know, hockey was just a winter sport for me. Of course, he coached me growing up, you know, he was tough. He's tough on me at times, but I think he saw at an early age that there were some potential there that I, of course, didn't recognize. So he just wanted to make sure I made the most of that.

00:07:10:17 - 00:07:31:02
Speaker 2
But I remember vividly he got to a point where he's colleagues like you got to you got to be with different coaches. And he stopped coaching me and I thought that that was looking back. It's such a smart decision. He could have easily coached me all throughout youth hockey, but I needed another voice. I needed some other coaching, I needed to learn that dynamic.

00:07:32:00 - 00:07:40:11
Speaker 2
So he kind of cut ties, so to speak, and let me kind of figure it out on my own with him kind of being in the background.

00:07:40:11 - 00:07:44:03
Speaker 1
That's awesome. Yeah. I think that that's the hockey and I'm for sure.

00:07:45:15 - 00:08:06:16
Speaker 2
J.R and I talked a little bit about this off line, which is the fact that back then I played football in college, but I played everything growing up and now it's like a lot more fun. It's interesting because you are the same way. You weren't just hockey. Hockey, yeah. Now that I have young kids and I'm already think about how I want to handle that and that's something I'm still going to instill.

00:08:06:16 - 00:08:29:12
Speaker 2
And I do think not just hockey, but sports in general is becoming a full time sport that too young of an age. And that is not going to be my mindset. I want my kids playing every sport. Hopefully it works out the way they did for myself, for Bobby, where you get to a certain age and at that point it's the right decision to focus strictly on whether it's hockey or whatever.

00:08:29:12 - 00:08:33:23
Speaker 2
But, you know, I'm going to handle it just as my my dad had handled it.

00:08:34:17 - 00:08:54:07
Speaker 1
Yeah, I think like 16, 17. You can start thinking about specialization if you got a special talent. But you know, we were we were three, three sport athletes our entire lives. And even as of my dad being like a hockey guy, that was like critical. Right. You got you had to play you had to put the skates away for a little bit.

00:08:54:07 - 00:09:11:16
Speaker 1
And I definitely don't do that anymore. So college hockey p c tell me a little bit like I'm always curious to hear like how, how did you change your approach to the game going from college hockey to the pro level call and like what were some of the things that were different?

00:09:12:18 - 00:09:31:19
Speaker 2
Yeah. And I think, you know, hindsight's 2020, right? But I think my biggest adjustment was going from junior and college. I was like a points guy, but being drafted, I was like penciled in as a power forward. It took me a long time when I got the pro hockey to really figure out the game I needed to play to make it.

00:09:31:19 - 00:09:51:16
Speaker 2
So, I mean, I was a full six years. I think I was in the minors before I really made it and it just I didn't understand like what it really took, what it meant to be a power forward, you know, like I was, you know, when you were rattling off some of those stats I even forgot about, you know, I was I was a points guy.

00:09:51:16 - 00:10:13:07
Speaker 2
Like, that's all I care about, you know, getting on the power play coach. Get me on the five. On three, you know, I'll back check when it's absolutely necessary. And that just doesn't cut it in pro hockey. You can get away with it in college hockey. But yeah, it just took me a long time to really understand, you know, when you see a red line, that means you're dumping the puck in.

00:10:13:08 - 00:10:34:19
Speaker 2
That doesn't mean you're trying to, you know, get the puck in on your own. You know, you're dumping it pretty much every time and starting up some offensive zone time that way. It just took me a while to figure it out. So, you know, I wish I maybe made that connection earlier on, but, you know, what can you do at this point?

00:10:35:20 - 00:10:41:03
Speaker 1
Yeah, finding that role is it can be hard, but you know, it comes with maturity too, I think.

00:10:42:01 - 00:11:01:03
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think I think I made at 28 and I can honestly say I was not ready before that. You know, again it took me a full six years of of just trying to figure it out. And I think a light bulb went off for me was when I when I led the American League in scoring and I still wasn't getting called off.

00:11:01:03 - 00:11:19:04
Speaker 2
I'm like, what the heck is going on? And that's when a coach kind of pulled me aside, not with Improvization is like that. Like, the only way you're going to make as you start playing as a power forward is like you're not good enough to be a top six guy. And that was like, all right. I was like, you know, here I was the leading scorer in the American League.

00:11:19:04 - 00:11:42:17
Speaker 2
I still wasn't getting a sniff. So, you know, that's kind of without light bulb went off. And unfortunately, fortunately, however you want to look at it, it just took, you know, to the ripe young age of 28 for me to make that leap. So I know what is interesting. You bring up that coach. So a lot of our listeners in a lot of our themes on our podcast are about mentorship.

00:11:42:17 - 00:12:07:20
Speaker 2
And you talked a little bit about in hockey specifically and some of your mentors, whether it's college or pro. Yeah. I mean, growing up playing on the infield, can I get to Springfield area? Billy Garrett was always the guy that they talked about. You know, I remember Gary Deneen, which I'm sure remembers from the coach's days, but he would always say, look, I'd be like college, like Billy Garrett said about see right there, you know?

00:12:07:20 - 00:12:39:07
Speaker 2
And I just thought that was the coolest thing. I'm like, you know, if that guy could do it and I'm sitting there, he's like, Why couldn't I do it? And then sure enough, fast forward a couple of years later and excited the Penguins and Billy Dee is the player development there and talk about like you know coming full circle moment and having him kind of help develop me and you want to talk about power forward arguably no better you know you put it in the mix for those top American power forwards and villages right there.

00:12:39:07 - 00:12:47:16
Speaker 2
So that had been kind of take me under his wing and take that better as I was playing in Wilkes-Barre. Then, you know, I give him a lot of credit for for helping groom me.

00:12:49:04 - 00:13:01:04
Speaker 1
Dude. That's like the sickest mentor that we've ever heard so far. That's unbelievable. One of my favorite quotes in the world is a Billy Guerin quote. It's it's not that hard to be a good guy.

00:13:01:04 - 00:13:24:07
Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly. It really isn't. But as you know, for some reason, just a lot of people don't get that, you know, I think they're so consumed with their selfish goals and desires that it just takes away from being a good guy. And not that I ever had that issue. I just thought Billy was like, you know, if there's anyone that can have an ego, it would be Billy Jay.

00:13:24:08 - 00:13:34:08
Speaker 2
And he has he's the most personable guy that you could ever meet with his accolades. And it's just such, like, a refreshing mentor to have in your corner.

00:13:34:22 - 00:13:46:12
Speaker 1
Unreal. Speaking of speaking of good get good guys any any, any favorite teammates were like like I got to I got to know like favorite teammate what made them your favorite.

00:13:48:01 - 00:14:12:05
Speaker 2
So I'll say this, I'll, you know, maybe I'll say this because of the name and everyone knows him. But I was fortunate to live with them for three years. But I live with Tovar as well as with the islanders. And to just there is a superstar that once I made the team was living by himself didn't really know that well invited me to live with them and stayed with them for my entire time there.

00:14:12:20 - 00:14:37:21
Speaker 2
And just to see a superstar like that go about his daily routine. And I obviously just didn't see it at the rink. I saw it at home and I thought I went and approached the game the right way and then just takes it up another level and just start to live and breathe. That was just an eye opening experience and something that will always stick with me.

00:14:37:21 - 00:15:01:13
Speaker 2
And now that I'm older, out of the game and I can hopefully get in a coaching position with my young kids, I'm always going to bring up that story because, you know, the bar's name is, again, a name that kids are going to remember for a long time. And I just had that unique experience of living with a family, you know, part of his bachelor party and his wedding.

00:15:02:01 - 00:15:31:15
Speaker 2
Our wives are great friends. It's just, you know, the hockey fan behind me. Like, I'm proud to be able to tell this story. You see, huge, huge name for me, right? I live in downtown Toronto and it's, you know. Yeah. So it's just it's, you know, now that my game and I can get that fan boy still, I mean, I can kind of talk about it like that, but it's just, I'm just so happy with the way, you know, it all worked out for me there.

00:15:32:00 - 00:15:50:08
Speaker 1
It makes you realize, like, special people do special things because. Because of the way their daily habits, the way they approach things, it's just it's just different, you know what I mean? That's awesome. How would your teammates describe you back?

00:15:50:08 - 00:16:13:20
Speaker 2
I mean, I think Tom and I talked about it, and I remember when I was older, my career and I took on more of a mentorship role, you know, having the respect of my teammates, the coaches, and they would always say, like, man, I like that. That guy just gets it. And I think it goes to that. I think you alluded to earlier about just like being a pro.

00:16:14:10 - 00:16:35:13
Speaker 2
I think those go hand in hand. I am proud of the way I went about things. I'd like to think I always went about things the right way. Of course, I made mistakes throughout my career, but I can honestly say I was never that selfish player in the locker room. I think there's a reason why I was in a leadership role for most of my career, and that's something I take a lot of pride in.

00:16:35:14 - 00:17:00:02
Speaker 2
That's something I've tried to transition into my role now, even as a rookie all over again, so to speak, you know, I'm able to kind of, you know, pay my hat on that even in know the corporate world now and still have those rare, you know, responsibilities and qualities. You know, I'm very much in a rookie position here, a Columbus.

00:17:00:10 - 00:17:29:21
Speaker 2
The transition is a big thing for us and we like it right? They shift. It's a big shift for us. But shifting over to a BTR role, a lot of our athletes that we worked with in the past, listeners that they're in that mindset, whether it's hockey, track and field, lacrosse, either trying to go professional, semi-pro now and they're trying to make that adjustment at a later stage versus coming right out of college and going into a role at 21 or 22.

00:17:30:05 - 00:17:50:03
Speaker 2
You talk about about a little bit about the lifestyle change going from hockey and to BTR. Yeah, I mean, that's, I mean, that's a loaded question. You know something? I'm still adjusting, you know, setting the record as the oldest BTR in company history is probably not the record you want to set. But, you know, here I am, 35 years old.

00:17:50:03 - 00:18:11:05
Speaker 2
I got two kids, you know, walked in and I got my my fingernails painted by my daughter hanging out with, you know, like, yes, a 21 and 20 year old kids that are, you know, so going out and the all week. And it's just I remember walking in the first day and I'm like, oh, god, what was I thinking?

00:18:11:05 - 00:18:33:06
Speaker 2
You know, try it out. Try to think, you know, prove I can do this. Obviously, I might be exaggerating a little bit, but I told time on my last call, you just really have to put your ego aside. And, you know, I took a year off from from playing to figure it out. I pursued coaching and pursued scouting management, all the roles within hockey.

00:18:33:06 - 00:19:04:06
Speaker 2
I pursued a bunch of different industries outside of hockey and the driving factor behind that was obviously moving out, obviously, but putting my family first. So I never really did that in hockey. It's very hard to do as they are going to do too. Well, I was like, you know, I just want some stability for my family. I want to sleep in my own bed every night that the other side of that is I want to challenge myself in something outside hockey.

00:19:04:06 - 00:19:30:09
Speaker 2
You know, I was like, you know, I've got I've got one, one crack at this so-called life. I feel like I did a good job in chapter one in hockey. Let's let's turn the page. Let's meet new people, let's learn new skills. Let's learn a new product and see what I can do. And, you know, to go down that path a little bit more, it being in sales, it checks off so many of the of the boxes that I was able to check off in hockey.

00:19:30:09 - 00:19:48:11
Speaker 2
You know, I'm not playing in front of 20,000 fans anymore, but I still get that same competitive rush being in sales. You know, having a quote on my head might stress out a lot of people. It doesn't stress now because I did it for 13 years. If I had a bad year, guess what? I didn't get a contract.

00:19:48:11 - 00:20:11:21
Speaker 2
If I had a good year, guess what? It opened up doors. I brought in more money. So like having it carrying a quarter is it's like just more of the same for me. The hard part for me is just understand the product, understanding how to sell, building those relationships. But I just trust my quality, I trust my characteristics, those things you can't necessarily coach.

00:20:13:02 - 00:20:21:22
Speaker 2
And just once I can get up to speed on the knowledge side of things here, I just know that I'm going to have success in this career as well.

00:20:22:19 - 00:20:37:11
Speaker 1
As that been the hardest part. Calling is the like just getting the knowledge on obviously you know recorded futures are fairly technical sell has that been kind of the toughest part on the around the transition for you.

00:20:38:03 - 00:20:57:05
Speaker 2
For sure is just closing that learning gap as quickly as I can. I mean, you know, even I remember first age just like logging into my computer, trying to get out my Google sheets and Gmail. I'm like, what? Like that stuff I never did, you know? And you know, you did it a little bit in college, but I took 13 years off.

00:20:57:05 - 00:21:19:23
Speaker 2
So it's just like learning, you know, where those younger people, my colleagues were ahead of me. It was they can step right in like they know how to build presentations. They know Google sheets, you know, that was stuff I still had to learn at the same time, same time, trying to learn the product, learning how to sell. And I know everyone says it, but I was the definition of drinking from that firehose.

00:21:20:16 - 00:21:43:20
Speaker 2
And I can't tell you how many times, you know, six months. And I'd come home. I'm still saying to my wife, flex in my BlackBerry, like, I don't know, like why why did I choose this again? Like, you know, she had to kind of pull the reins back and then, you know, bring me back down to neutral. But I know it will be a long winded answer there, but for sure it's just like it's just learning what it is we do.

00:21:43:20 - 00:22:05:00
Speaker 2
And five Cybersecurity is not an easy topic to understand, even if you've been in it for ten, 15, 20 years and you know, you've put me in a situation, I'm like, God, I don't know if I'm ever going to be able to figure it out. That's a good that's a super valuable answer. We kind of let you talk on that all day.

00:22:05:00 - 00:22:33:16
Speaker 2
That's that's I've never had to put that way before. But and the question kind of went off like, did anyone advise you to go into sales or how did you come up with that idea? You do research on your own. So honestly, I just started reaching out to my network and I think part of it being in Boston, my network, those that were out of hockey, out of sports, seemed to led me to medical sales and tech sales.

00:22:33:16 - 00:22:59:01
Speaker 2
I pursued both lots of hockey guys in both industries. I pursued medical sales just as much as I pursued tech sales. And I started doing my own research. Of course, I thought cybersecurity was okay, you know, talking about timing's everything in life. I think I got in right when cybersecurity was really starting to pick up mainstream news. Exactly.

00:23:00:01 - 00:23:35:13
Speaker 2
And I was like, You know what? I'm just going to take a stab at it. You know, I don't I couldn't say one sentence about what cybersecurity is or was, but I'm just going to go all in. I didn't know anyone that record future, so I went in and just I put a blind resume in. I eventually end up putting up with some hockey guys, but knowing that I knew no one I played with, no one I played against, I just really did the old fashioned way and then was able to meet or make some connections during that process that they help me get in.

00:23:35:13 - 00:23:38:21
Speaker 2
But I knew no one when I when I applied here.

00:23:39:09 - 00:23:46:10
Speaker 1
That's unreal. I didn't know that. I didn't know that. That's awesome. Well, they got a they got a good one with you. They got lucky, man. That's awesome.

00:23:46:23 - 00:24:10:22
Speaker 2
Yeah. And I think once once my name got on the radar, you know, I think I read that first interview process. They're pretty open shows like, you know, you don't come across too many resumes like this. So despite your, you know, lack of experience, your unique experience, we're going to push you right through. And then a guy named Kevin Morris, who played at Miami of Ohio, played a little bit on the East Coast, I think.

00:24:10:22 - 00:24:29:20
Speaker 2
Yes, that's an American. He was the guy that was referencing there. But again, I'm quite a few years older than him, so I never played with them against them. And I didn't really know the names, to be honest, but I connected with him. His dad still is a coach. He coached in the NHL American League for a bit, so he was my in.

00:24:29:20 - 00:24:53:06
Speaker 2
But again I just blindly applied and was able to weasel my way in here. I guess that's legit. Most people have it in or my brother in law recommending them or somebody telling them their coach tells them. So that's pretty that's pretty impressive. Do you have any for the listeners out there? Do you have any guidance for people going through every from the NHL.

00:24:54:14 - 00:24:56:10
Speaker 1
Into the BTR type.

00:24:56:11 - 00:25:26:00
Speaker 2
Role? But do you have any guidance for people or things you would approach differently in that transition? Honestly, I you just have to be honest. I think one thing where I was able to gain that respect, even going back to my playing days, if there's something I didn't know, I would just call that out, you know? And again, I'm not naive to the fact that my my unique resumé maybe gave me a free pass on some of that stuff.

00:25:26:00 - 00:25:59:13
Speaker 2
But, you know, sometimes I think they're more about hiring the person than they are about hiring the expert expertize. So they hired me strictly on that and they trust the program to bring you up to speed as far as the tech and the learning. So I think if you could just lean on like those maybe characteristic qualities that people can't teach, you know, the copy should trust their training program, that they'll bring that person up to speed, but not so good on the other side, I'm involved in interview processes now.

00:26:00:11 - 00:26:15:21
Speaker 2
I don't care if they don't record future sales. I'm trying to dig in to that candidate as a person. Like what makes you tick? You're like, Why are you here? Like, What are we going to get out of you? And if I can check off those boxes, then I just trust the program here and that will bring them up to speed.

00:26:15:21 - 00:26:25:06
Speaker 2
If if anyone can say that it's me, that you can figure it out. Despite the lack of knowledge you might have on a product.

00:26:26:03 - 00:26:57:10
Speaker 1
We really like, we preach the idea of like Go in learn is a BTR, you know, hit your metrics, be a good teammate and just go in and learn. If you do those things, then you have an opportunity where you can move into a closing role fairly quickly. I think you're a great example of like habits, behaviors and mindsets, allowing you to get to that a role within the first months you did, the first year you did it in under a year.

00:26:57:20 - 00:27:01:15
Speaker 1
What are what are the things that you think allowed you to do that call it?

00:27:02:00 - 00:27:25:01
Speaker 2
And I'm very open about this because I've been asked about that for the fact I was able to get by as quickly as I did. But it's the same stuff I did playing it first in the office this last one to leave the office, just showing those qualities on a day to day basis. So I know I wasn't hired, based or promoted based on my metrics, based on my knowledge.

00:27:25:12 - 00:27:43:14
Speaker 2
I was hired or promoted because they trust me to put in the work and they know that I'll figure it out and I have the support around me to help me figure it out. But the fact that they can check off that box for me and just know like I'm not hiding, I'm not a remote employee, I'm in the office every day.

00:27:43:14 - 00:28:02:06
Speaker 2
Like they just know what they're going to get out of me. And yes, I have had success here. Like, I don't want to I don't want to miss out on that, but I don't want to I don't want that to be that to be the focus of the conversation. It's about those intangibles that people look for and trust.

00:28:02:06 - 00:28:26:23
Speaker 2
So if I don't hit my number this quarter, I know I'm going to be okay. They know that I'm going to be okay because they know I'm putting in the work. I'm not hiding. They see me here every day and I think that gives them peace of mind. How do you convey that calm in an interview like talk to the listeners about what they can be doing as athletes coming into sales, trying to show that there's an edge there, right?

00:28:26:23 - 00:28:50:08
Speaker 2
Like it's easy for us. Again, I yeah. Just I understand that not everyone's going to have quite the resumé that I did coming into this type of position. But the fact that there were any sort of college athlete, there is something that makes sense to get them to that point, whatever that is. Just translate that to this role and everything else.

00:28:50:08 - 00:29:11:01
Speaker 2
Well, it might not make sense today. It might not make sense tomorrow, next week, next month. But if you could just hammer on that repetition, those practices just showing up every day, just putting in the work like it's going to fast track you, you know, through the program where you can start having some success.

00:29:11:22 - 00:29:30:18
Speaker 1
That now that you're in a, in a selling role and carrying like a like a quota, what do you think? Like what's an area of development that you think some of these kids like? We have a lot of athletes that are now leaders. They're sitting here listening to their saying, I want to be in a in 12 months.

00:29:30:18 - 00:29:45:04
Speaker 1
What's like, in your opinion, like the top skill, the top area of development that you think these folks should be leaning into to differentiate themselves from the other 20 other leaders, that they're competing for those open roles with.

00:29:45:18 - 00:30:10:20
Speaker 2
A skill like what I just said, J.R. And I could simplify it as if it be visible. And what I mean by that is, if you go to the the manager, does he know who you are? If you go to the CFO, does he know who you are? Does she know who you are? If you go to those executives, if they if they see your name on a Slack channel on an email, do they know who you are?

00:30:11:15 - 00:30:31:11
Speaker 2
I don't necessarily care how you go about doing that, but make sure these people know who you are because when you're up for promotion, like everyone's going to be able to check off the same metrics that they have. Right. That's why they're can be promoted. But these these management people want to know, what am I hired here? Like what makes this person tech?

00:30:31:11 - 00:30:51:19
Speaker 2
I know I keep hammering home the same message, but I really can't make that more clear is get into your background. I talked about listen, my daughter, my parents graduated from college. I made sure that I was going to be the first one of my family to graduate from college. My dad got out of hockey and got into a sales role.

00:30:51:19 - 00:31:09:05
Speaker 2
I see the success that he has in sales. I know that if he can do it, I can do it. And how did he do it? He just outworked everyone. So it's the same stuff that we've done all of our lives. You're just putting it in a different bucket being and a corporate a corporate seat.

00:31:10:19 - 00:31:32:19
Speaker 1
100%. I really hope the guy, guys and girls listening to this heard that because I could not agree more being visible and and and focusing on those differentiating. It's really about experiences, right? There's not a lot of people out there that can say they lost big games. They got cut from teams, they came back from injuries to be successful.

00:31:33:02 - 00:31:43:18
Speaker 1
And when that's what you have on your resume and in your life experience, those are things that we really, really emphasize our candidates to be honing in on. Well said.

00:31:44:02 - 00:32:06:01
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, I'll give you another use cases. You know, we had someone from M.I.T. here. You know, she was top class. She's like all these different published reports already. So looking at her resume, you think she's an automatic hire, that you talk to her? There's just like there's nothing there, you know, there's no there. There's some communication skills lacking.

00:32:06:01 - 00:32:27:02
Speaker 2
There's no like, you know, like, are you going to go out and hunt new business? Like, are you going to drive business? And that's what they're looking for here. I'm assuming you can speak to that more than I can, but I'm just I'm assuming other sales companies are looking for those same types of that hunting mentality. We're not farmers, we're hunters.

00:32:27:02 - 00:32:47:04
Speaker 2
And, you know, so despite that resonate, again, I keep going back to like, what makes you think, you know, I would lean on and maybe this is an unfair advantage, but I've got a family to provide for, you know, so, you know, I bring home 50 K, it's not going to cut it for me. You know, it might cut it for a 21, 22 year old.

00:32:47:04 - 00:33:07:20
Speaker 2
So I'm going to make sure that I'm outworking everyone because I have three reasons at home why I have to bring home money. And that said, you know, the point I'm trying to make, if you can't talk about providing for your family, you know, tell another story, telling our story that's going to separate you from the fact.

00:33:09:10 - 00:33:10:01
Speaker 1
It's all about.

00:33:10:01 - 00:33:10:18
Speaker 2
Stories.

00:33:10:20 - 00:33:11:18
Speaker 1
All about stories.

00:33:12:23 - 00:33:27:23
Speaker 2
So one thing we ask guests on and off the show each time is and we ask them to highlight one skill that they've developed over the years that they think makes them do. What's your skill that you think makes you really.

00:33:28:04 - 00:33:30:01
Speaker 1
From a sales perspective from.

00:33:30:06 - 00:33:57:10
Speaker 2
Yeah. Now from hockey I'll say my communication skills. I hope you're picking up on that now. I think the approach that I'm personally taking to sales is I'm trying to be a non sales sales guy, so see how you come across it all the time. There's a lot of I don't know how to say it, but a lot of salespeople that just do business the way that I just I wouldn't be able to sleep at night doing it that way.

00:33:57:12 - 00:34:17:16
Speaker 2
So I think, you know, getting me in the mix, I think, is a breath of fresh air when I'm talking to prospects and customers. And I just think being able to have that personal connection because as you know, people buy from people and if you can have the product to support that, it's going to make your job a heck of a lot easier.

00:34:18:10 - 00:34:36:03
Speaker 2
So I know I can check off that that person ability box. And now it's just about getting back to, you know, being able to speak to a product, you know, how do we separate ourselves from our competitors? So yeah, I would just say my, my, you know, I say all the times, as much as I'm in sales, I'm a human being.

00:34:36:03 - 00:34:39:12
Speaker 2
I try and lean on that human being part more than I am in on the sales part.

00:34:39:20 - 00:35:09:23
Speaker 1
Yeah, I think if you go into conversations really trying to understand what problems people are trying to solve and you do a good job of communicating how you solve that problem, how you solve that uniquely and why it's valuable to them. You don't need to be the pushy like, hey, it's, you know, we got two weeks left, so what do I need to do to get you to sign on this dotted line that, you know, people want to help you, they want you to be successful and it becomes like one plus one equals three type of relationship.

00:35:09:23 - 00:35:10:19
Speaker 1
So that's awesome.

00:35:12:09 - 00:35:37:12
Speaker 2
Yeah. It's like, you know, it's trying to detach yourself from the outcome. Like I don't want my prospects being able to smell my commission breath. Right? So if they can get into a conversation with me and they know that they're not they're not sensing that that commission radar that salespeople have, it just makes the conversation flow that much easier.

00:35:38:14 - 00:36:08:03
Speaker 2
But it's hard to do. Like, Yeah, I get it. I'm not naive to that. But if you can really just actually like, listen to the prospect and answer their questions instead of drive, force them down the path that you want them to go. I think it's going to have like a reverse psychology type effect. You know, if you just listen to what they're talking about and if you can disqualify before, you know, qualifying, that's just as meaningful as qualifying something.

00:36:08:03 - 00:36:31:22
Speaker 2
And, you know, sometimes salespeople get those happy ears and they they qualify something that's just not there. And if you do, you're wasting a whole sales like on something that you could qualify it out in week one or week to get the words right out of my mouth. I was like, communication is it's wicked hard. Like, it's so hard to be a good communicator.

00:36:31:22 - 00:36:53:23
Speaker 2
It's like I find myself sometimes I'm just talking and talking and talking. I'm like, I need to stop talking. It's yeah, it's like one of the things we talk about here, I'm sure every sales company do it, but having like, you know, you want your prospect customer talk around that like, you know 60 70% mark we're on that 30% mark of talk.

00:36:53:23 - 00:37:17:18
Speaker 2
Again, easier said than done. Again, I'm not I'm not trying to make myself out to be something I'm not. But if you can really just listen and answer the questions and answer the problems, I think you're going to be better off. But, you know, because you have a quote on your head and you get those end of quarter conversations, it is so hard to try to not cross that line.

00:37:18:04 - 00:37:41:16
Speaker 1
Too. We used to say I used to say to sales reps, you got two ears and one mouth. Act accordingly, right? Like, listen, twice as much as you talk. That's that's how I get sales cargoes. I mean, I, I'm obviously like I love recording future. They're an awesome partner of ours and I and I'm actually blown away calling by, by just how you talk by some stealing commission breath.

00:37:41:16 - 00:37:43:19
Speaker 1
I'll give you credit twice and then it's mine.

00:37:44:07 - 00:37:45:09
Speaker 2
So thank you for that.

00:37:45:18 - 00:38:07:22
Speaker 1
I wrote it down. It's going to be on my computer. So this this is our last question call and thank you. So my father was obviously he's a high school hockey coach forever. Now he coaches the new NCDC. And we grew up he used to always say to us, listen, there's a lot of people that play hockey, but there's not a lot of hockey players.

00:38:08:06 - 00:38:36:02
Speaker 1
So we kind of grew up like having that professional mentality, like being a pro, even at a young age. And me and John always talk about the highest praise that you can give. A sales person is calling them a pro, right? There's a lot of people that sell software. There's not a lot of software sales professionals. So I'd love to hear now that you're in the sea, now that you've been doing this for a while, what does being a pro in this new industry, what does it mean to you?

00:38:36:18 - 00:39:03:16
Speaker 2
It's going to go back to what I said before. It's like focusing on those those office qualities, you know, just putting in the work, it being visible, just being a normal human being, putting your ego aside and just trusting your leaders, trusting the product and just doing what's asked of you. If you can do that, everything will work itself out.

00:39:03:18 - 00:39:30:05
Speaker 2
So if they hire hire you, they've hired you for a reason, but now it's on you to prove them right. So, you know, whatever that takes, it might be a little bit different. It's not a cookie cutter philosophy. Everyone's going to have their own way of going about it. But it really is those those know those office qualities that have been ingrained in us ever since we were kids.

00:39:30:16 - 00:39:40:10
Speaker 1
100%. Well said, man. Com. This was an awesome conversation, buddy. Our candidates are going to get so much out of this. I can't thank you enough for spending some time with us.

00:39:40:20 - 00:39:58:21
Speaker 2
Thank you, Paul. Yeah, I'm happy to start giving back, I guess. You know, I'm I'm not naive to the uniqueness of my decision to take a stab at this selling our business that we're in. But yeah, I'm happy. I'm happy to start giving back.

00:39:59:06 - 00:40:02:13
Speaker 1
Absolutely. Learn, earn and return, buddy. You're living it. Thank you.

00:40:02:19 - 00:40:10:06
Speaker 2
You got it. Based on. Thanks, everyone.

00:40:10:06 - 00:40:32:06
Speaker 1
This wraps up this episode of Merchants of Change. If you enjoyed this episode, the most meaningful way to say is to submit a review wherever you listen to podcasts. If you're interested in working with us, please come find us at WW Dot Chef Group. Got a.