Merchants of Change

00:00:00:11 - 00:00:28:00
Speaker 1
All right. Today, our Merchants of Change we are joined by former Mr. Millis Chris Ward football player from Bates. We get to learn a little bit about his journey from a big company to a small startup and a ten year run at turbo nomics before joining the exciting vessel who just raised a series D and $160 million at a $2.5 billion valuation.

00:00:33:13 - 00:00:38:11
Speaker 2
I'm J.R. Butler, co-founder of the Shift Group. And you're listening to Merchants of Change.

00:00:40:13 - 00:01:02:21
Speaker 2
This is a podcast about transferring the skills and behaviors we acquire as athletes into being a professional technology salesperson. Each week, we'll introduce you to a top performer who will help us understand how they became professional merchants of change.

00:01:04:02 - 00:01:33:09
Speaker 1
Tom Kay, how are we doing all this? Good, good, good. So for this one, we got a massachusetts football player. So that's right up my alley. That's right, baby. That's right. Chris Ward coming in from Bristol. Chris and I have a lot of history, so I'm definitely excited for this. Chris is a phenomenal sales leader. Athletic background. I know he's got some great stories to share with us.

00:01:33:09 - 00:01:56:20
Speaker 1
So let's let's just get right into it. John, I know you're coming from like a league right there, Chris. You guys kind of grew up in the same area, Massachusetts. Why don't you start off by asking and asking a little bit about Chris's athletic background? Yeah, that's good. So, Chris, I reminded what what's the league? What? Some of the militias that I grew up in Mansfield cycles.

00:01:57:07 - 00:02:17:12
Speaker 1
So yeah I know guys for a while now we're in the tri-valley and I do have an athletic background. I wouldn't say I'm an athlete. I'd rely on my brains and my strength and some other strategies, but I'm happy to be here though. Is it fun to have? It is usually jazz talk that usually the hockey players. So it's good to have you on here.

00:02:17:13 - 00:02:40:23
Speaker 1
I grew up playing I played left tackle since the day I was born and since I played football, but I never touched the ball. Yeah, I played football in basketball mainly in high school and I went back and forth between baseball and track and I played football for two years in college. Then concussions caught up to me. So I actually started playing rugby because I actually got to touch the ball.

00:02:41:04 - 00:03:01:20
Speaker 1
Surprisingly, there's a lot less concussions in rugby as well. Yeah, I didn't I when I stopped playing football, the rugby coach, I think you call me the next morning, you try to ask me to play rugby, but yeah, so they're on the same page. And so what's it like growing up in Dallas? I knew you guys, you played like Gordon and Bowie back in the day for a moment.

00:03:01:22 - 00:03:29:08
Speaker 1
Those six teams like that? Yeah. Medway, Mansfield, Hopkinton. We are by far the smallest town. And we had this, this motto, small school, big family. Like I graduated with 69 people and like a lot after I left, I think there was 16 people that played football my senior year and two years after I left, we had to hook up with another town just to keep the program going.

00:03:30:11 - 00:04:02:21
Speaker 1
But like it was like that was just a big fish in a small town, and I loved it. Yeah. Mr. Mills. Mr. Mills, this is kind of a pageant for guys, so it's not that cool on paper, but pretty serious back then. It was good to well, that's cool. I always I always like that because Mills is like to me, growing up in Bakersfield, we always think of Foxboro and North Alabama and stuff, but Mills, Midway, Medford, they're all kind of like tucked away right off the highway in there.

00:04:02:21 - 00:04:24:16
Speaker 1
I don't know how to get to Billings, but I know, I know where Billings is. That makes sense. 15 minutes for Foxboro. Yeah, yeah, you're right there. And I hate that spot for you. Is what? So you grew up with 69 kids, graduated with. So what kind of student were you in in your class there? I was a great student.

00:04:25:19 - 00:04:52:23
Speaker 1
I credit that I had a twin sister who was like straight A's. That was like straight B pluses. She was a three sport captain. I was Captain Football, my junior and senior play basketball. But like National Honor Society and all like the leadership councils and stuff like that, it was like very embedded in the community. Yeah, I would, I would say you have to be the base is a great school, great state.

00:04:52:23 - 00:05:12:19
Speaker 1
Very I actually did a recruiting trip up there. I did one of the base and Boden did all the NESCAC schools in Maine when I was looking at schools and I knew a couple of guys that went to base in there for football. They were few years older than me, but they were wicked smart guys. So yeah, what was out there was good.

00:05:12:19 - 00:05:35:21
Speaker 1
Like, I won't lie a couple of years before I got there. I think base growth, NCAA record four consecutive losses in football. So like the football program wasn't that successful. But when I think back to like that, I think about all the relationships I formed, people I met and like it's the first time where like the sport became more of like a job.

00:05:35:21 - 00:05:53:03
Speaker 1
And I felt like I took it a lot more serious, but like the demands that it had. But the other day we met better. I got a ton of wins, but like we had a great time. They really. They set the record for most losses. Yeah, it was tough. It was like, I don't even know how many years in a row they didn't win a game.

00:05:53:17 - 00:06:14:01
Speaker 1
And then we got there. In my two years there, I think we were two and six each year to only play other NESCAC schools. There was no like play offs, nothing beyond that in having the Amherst and the Williams of the world tend to get better recruiting classes. But yeah, we still had a lot of fun. They actually had a couple of winning seasons, years ago.

00:06:15:00 - 00:06:40:05
Speaker 1
They're trying to rebuild, but we'll see. Yeah. What position where you base? I was all across the offensive line. I played tackle play guard, played little center. I started my sophomore year, my first got a lot of playing time but yeah. Mostly guarded so yeah. So would you, would you like better playing at Miller's or playing at Bates?

00:06:41:13 - 00:07:13:04
Speaker 1
Miller By far it wasn't only like, but it was like we didn't win that much at Miller's really like 16 kids playing, I think just like my generation of Miller. Like we just like when you only have that many kids in your class, you really need people to, like, pick football or soccer. But my generation, like all the kids and the best athletes, pick soccer and like we were like in states and soccer, but we just made the football team suffer.

00:07:13:11 - 00:07:35:05
Speaker 1
But like what I loved about Miller's was like the culture on the team is like, we still do care. And like, at the end of the day, we might not win the team battle, but like we were just focused on the individual battles and we'd celebrate things like that because like we didn't have much. I remember football camp going against towns like Foxboro so and Natick that that football camp in Wayland.

00:07:35:22 - 00:07:51:13
Speaker 1
I don't know if you ever went to that. Oh yeah. Yeah. What was that like? I have to get the name. But I went there's like touch football. Like I think there's somebody there, but we still like went through line drills. I remember like we would beat up on all these big towns, but like the thing is, we had three really good kids.

00:07:51:13 - 00:08:12:08
Speaker 1
They had 40. So like I was going to work, but it was a great culture on the team and like it was always like that. Both my brothers were football captains. I'm brother, four years older and ten years, eight years older and like both of them won Super Bowls and like did great. But I just suffered from my class, chose to play soccer.

00:08:12:08 - 00:08:37:12
Speaker 1
You, me and J.R., I know Gerard's big wins at Holy Cross for hockey, but we celebrate glory days in hockey back against high school sports. So I think everybody from Massachusetts is like that. You know, there's like it's a different type of mentality playing high school sports. The rivalries are so much deeper, too, and also like the world so small in the game.

00:08:37:13 - 00:09:01:08
Speaker 1
But it wasn't until I got to Bates, I realized, like, how much bigger the world was. I was like, I remember hearing all these towns surrounding me, and then you get to school and you meet like one of my good buddies from Pakistan. And I'm like, okay, well, who cares about Midway like this? This is a place. Yeah, I buy the same thing.

00:09:01:08 - 00:09:32:07
Speaker 1
I mean, player to man. So we had to give you some idea. We had about 112 kids on our varsity football team. I was a captain and I had the same number as some sophomore and they announced the sophomore and the in the state championship game. So to make is the number 50, it's like the have six busses take you people to games and you know 30 kids played but that's that's funny you start with that you know who cares about midway J.R. and I learned that firsthand.

00:09:32:07 - 00:09:58:03
Speaker 1
And Holy Cross understand that's a lot. The world's a lot bigger. Yeah. What was your what's your best memory from your playing career, Chris? From all the sports, from Mr. Miller's other than Mr. Miller, like, I'd like you want my real answer. My favorite bad memory from playing any sports. Yeah. The game winning shot in a intramural playoff basketball game.

00:09:58:09 - 00:10:34:13
Speaker 1
So it was like, you know, I mean, I don't like it. I don't like running with the ball to pass the ball. I was always in a position that, like, didn't get a ton of shine. So like, that was the only time I like really being like, had something cool happen. Like when I think back to college or high school, it's hard to think of like I guess I good sophomore in high school I got all star as a sophomore in the league and then we had we were actually really good my freshman and sophomore year, so that was cool and that recognition was cool being the first ever junior captain was cool.

00:10:34:13 - 00:10:55:11
Speaker 1
But like, I just think back to like having dinners with my friends. Like those are always my most fondest memories and like maybe the concussions pushed out all playing memories, but like, I don't know, that's what always brings to me. That's when when you were sitting at base and when you got to base, did you have any clue what you wanted to do after college?

00:10:57:05 - 00:11:17:15
Speaker 1
I knew things I didn't want to do anymore, so but I remember growing up and I wanted to be like a firefighter cause my dad was a firefighter. His dad was a firefighter. His dad's dad was a firefighter. My brothers both became teachers. I thought that would be cool. But what I go to base was the first time I ever saw, like, welts.

00:11:18:00 - 00:11:52:23
Speaker 1
It's like my roommate had a BMW. The first I've ever seen a BMW is Dad was the corporate lawyer of Kellogg's. And I was just like, this is such a different world. And I remember also during college, I worked at a high end moving company where we were delivering to like the famous athletes we delivered to Tom Brady's house spread on the com ab at the time we went to Paul Pierce's house in Lincoln and we delivered to the Aerosmith drummer's house and like the CEO of those and South Derby said a $25 million house.

00:11:53:15 - 00:12:12:04
Speaker 1
So I mean, college was the first time it seemed like actual wealth compared to like how I grew up and like the life I was accustomed to. And then I'm also working at a high end moving company, like going to these properties and like I remember like put this kind of determination to me, like, why can't I have these nice things?

00:12:12:12 - 00:12:36:20
Speaker 1
So like that's where, like I was thinking, how do you get these nice things? So it's like sales would be like the best part. That was a sociology major. I was going to be a sociologist, but both you had thoughts on that? J.R. Like? J.R. Yeah, I didn't know the past, but I remember like weighing between, like, health care sales and tech sales and deciding to go down the tech sales path.

00:12:36:20 - 00:13:06:01
Speaker 1
Because I was more interested in tech and thought of I'd enjoy learning it more. So you go ahead. Yeah. You knew in college you wanted to do tech sales? Chris Yeah, I will say it was like something I did right away because I graduated oh nine. It was like a market crash. Things were not good. I remember I had a kind of a temporary job like managing a college bookstore, but I had been trying to get into tech sales since I graduated.

00:13:06:01 - 00:13:28:04
Speaker 1
Yeah, really? How did you find out about it? It just friends that graduated before me and they were doing really well and I ended up getting an internship at Oracle and so on. I played football with Sam Storm and Pete had just done an internship at Oracle, then got hired full time and he could basically just back hire and backfill his role.

00:13:28:04 - 00:13:45:24
Speaker 1
And he thought of me because he knew I was trying to get into the field, and that's how we started. Oracle was a six month internship, so. So I did like more about who you knew graduating. Did you have any other kind of ideas or strategies on getting a job or just networking with some of the guys? You do that.

00:13:46:14 - 00:14:10:18
Speaker 1
So I did know I wanted to get into tech sales, but like that's the limit of like the filtering I did for a job which I'm, I enjoy the experience I had at Oracle. But like you have to think I'm going from one of those public schools in Massachusetts to a very small liberal arts college to then one of the biggest companies in the globe was like 180,000 employees or so.

00:14:11:07 - 00:14:36:20
Speaker 1
So when I got there, it was not me. And like, granted now like what I do credit those six months with was like it solidified. I wanted to stay in tech sales, but I also had buddies around Boston. I had one is named Ted Bron C and he worked at this company, Brightcove, which you guys might be familiar with, that super early start up and another buddy at HubSpot, which back then was a super early startup.

00:14:36:20 - 00:14:57:06
Speaker 1
This was like 12, 13 years ago. And I remember whenever I would hang out with them if we were with their colleagues, it was like I didn't exist. And I remember I would get like super annoyed because like I'm not part of the conversation and like they're just raving about like, Oh, I got this promotion and I traveled here, we closed this deal.

00:14:57:15 - 00:15:16:13
Speaker 1
I didn't have that at Oracle, and I realized I wasn't mad at them. I was just jealous because, like, I didn't care. And like, that wasn't the mentality. It's such a large company. So now I'm like, I don't want to work for it. And I remember at the end of my internship, I was getting job offers at Oracle to sell their hardware of Sun Microsystems.

00:15:16:21 - 00:15:44:12
Speaker 1
And I was like, Absolutely not. Like, I need to go into an industry that's growing like this, but a much smaller company. And I looked at virtualization, the cloud security, and I tried to look at startups, and that's what eventually I got lucky. I talked to a recruiter who had just met me back like a couple of weeks prior in like Turbo was the exact type of company I was looking for, maybe earlier stage startup.

00:15:44:12 - 00:16:01:17
Speaker 1
Then I was really looking at, but it ended up all working out. So Chris, can you can you talk a little bit more about this? Because I think it's very interesting for some of our listeners like I did not find my way into tech sales in college. I was trying to be an accountant or finance person on Wall Street.

00:16:01:17 - 00:16:22:00
Speaker 1
Right. And you knew about it, I'd say, earlier in your days at Bass and you knew you wanted to get into it, but then you got into a big corporation, realized you didn't want that pretty quickly. So a lot of our listeners are thinking, okay, I want to go to Texas, right? Like they want to be in software now.

00:16:22:01 - 00:16:49:02
Speaker 1
It's a hard thing everybody knows about it. It's a big time job. So a lot of people are trying to break in, but everybody's thinking big company or small company. So can you talk a little bit more about the differences there? I think that's important. Yeah. I think it's important like to do some self-reflection and like think about things you're interested in and like table sports, like I couldn't imagine a different like upbringing I had and like giant teams or things like that.

00:16:49:11 - 00:17:08:01
Speaker 1
And like it's such a small school. I like, I was, I credit my mom for a lot of this. So both of my parents were from Dorchester. My mom was in college educated. She just walked straight out of high school. My father was a firefighter, but I remember in high school my mom always be like Christopher Math, the computers.

00:17:08:07 - 00:17:30:00
Speaker 1
One of the other you got to do and I suck at math. So like that just kind of stuck with me. She wasn't wrong. I credit her all the time like she didn't say anything beyond you. Get into computers, something computers. And like, I'm not a programmer. I'm not developer. I'm like nothing of that sort because I was like, like, what can I do to be within tech and like, do well in this industry?

00:17:30:00 - 00:17:45:20
Speaker 1
And I also like just looking at people that graduate before me. Like that's what all the credits from like going to such small schools is like. You really know a lot of people, not just in your grade, but people that are older than you and you see how they're doing and what they're doing and you can network with them as well.

00:17:45:20 - 00:18:05:16
Speaker 1
But like I think at the end of the day, like it depends like what do you do? You have a growth mindset like you do you really want to like make an impact or be a number? Like the thing about is like, hey, here's the template for your job. Do this every single day. And if you hit these metrics, you can apply to this job after X amount of time.

00:18:05:16 - 00:18:29:18
Speaker 1
I didn't like that. I was just like, I want to come in like a bat out of hell, like, start like having an impact immediately and like, help mold you company and like, have a purpose. I'm like, that's what kind of drove me. You definitely did that at Turbo. Chris. You were really early there before me. I didn't realize that it was a recruiter that got you there.

00:18:29:18 - 00:18:50:01
Speaker 1
Can you just talk about like, you know, the the early days of Turbo and like what that ten year I was a ten year run was pretty, pretty incredible. I talk about it a lot with our candidates, but I think it's good for them to hear from somebody else about like what it was like in that environment and like what were the best things about it.

00:18:50:23 - 00:19:09:01
Speaker 1
Yeah, and the worst things about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, there's a long list on both sides, but I think the end justifies the means. So I do value that experience more than anything. It's going to help build my career. But I think about it when I got there, like I knew what I was signing up for.

00:19:09:01 - 00:19:29:11
Speaker 1
Like I did it, I did it. But like, I walk in into my interview and I still remember I walked in. Jimmy Mac's like, Well, you read a white paper, so you're hired. If you want the job, you just got to let me know. In a couple of days, I'll say it was completely disarming, but like there's only 15 people at the company and they're doing about 100 game revenue.

00:19:29:11 - 00:20:03:24
Speaker 1
To think when I ended up leaving is closer to 200 million in revenue, 750 employees. And I see Great Exit with IBM, but I started off like Brown for like SDR, just banging the phones. And I remember I told myself like, you have to have a mentality about getting out on the skinny branch because that's the only reason you should be joining a startup is if you're going to continue to push yourself and not like not need to be like pushed or like have obviously need help along the way, but you have to have that determination.

00:20:04:08 - 00:20:23:05
Speaker 1
And I remember on my third day right before a like next training, there was like 7 minutes in between and Jimmy asked, does anyone want to make some phone calls? I my hand went up before I even knew it. I was like, You idiot. Like I'm already like sweating, freaking out. But I'm like 7 minutes before the next training.

00:20:23:05 - 00:20:45:06
Speaker 1
Like, no one's going to like it. It's cold going. Like, what are the chances? Obviously on my phone's dial someone answers and I actually like scheduled the demo. So like that's the goal, the role and like everyone's like, holy shit, look at this kid. Like, he's nasty and stuff. It was like the best and worst thing that could have happened because for three months after that I'd schedule another call.

00:20:45:17 - 00:21:14:19
Speaker 1
So every like I knew what I was doing. I did like we didn't do any gold song at work. This is before they actually had their whole, like, business development program in place. Like, I was the only guy in Burlington that was like BTR. Let's go with that. We Cullors the business development consultant there and I remember those first three months putting so much pressure on myself because like I was trying to learn how to cope because I was like, I'm in tech now.

00:21:14:19 - 00:21:32:05
Speaker 1
I got to know everything. But then like I started reading sales books and like Jim was such a great mentor. I remember he put a mirror on my desk and told me to smile into it when I'm dialing and like these things sounded corny, but like in the sales books, I'd go right to the pilot to tell, like, I don't need to learn how to code.

00:21:32:14 - 00:21:52:09
Speaker 1
I need to stop being scared shitless. And the first ones that phone starts raining. So I started reading all these things, like thinking about like saying nice things and positive things to yourself as the phone dialing and just like getting down that first sentence have an inflection in your voice and stand up because that opens your airways like all these little tactics.

00:21:52:09 - 00:22:08:20
Speaker 1
And this is what like is why I love what you guys are doing at shift because like that's how an athlete approaches things is like, how do I get a better swing? How do I get a better shot? How much more efficient my time? How do I get lower leg? What's my leverage like when I'm on the line?

00:22:09:02 - 00:22:33:22
Speaker 1
Like, how do I get stronger? Like, this is how I approach the problem in once I had that first really good call, it just blossomed from there. And I remember I ended up becoming a sales manager within like six months or so. But at the time sales managers manage hours and it got to a point where I had 7 hours underneath me in 70 opportunities I was running.

00:22:33:22 - 00:23:02:08
Speaker 1
I was like, Jim, we got to think about how to redo this because this isn't this isn't going to scale. So I built the first SDR program, did that for a year through that from 0 to 45 people. And I built our first sales team and customer experience team or systems because like something I was like very attracted to was like the autonomy to like build my own team and like I just kept thinking like where do my skills applied?

00:23:02:08 - 00:23:32:17
Speaker 1
So like big problems within the business, like people sales stuff for a while is that like we always ask like, like, you know, your superpower, like a unique skill that you've developed specifically that makes you successful. Would you say what would you say yours is like when it comes to this idea of building? I think I'd I go through this like active role of like taking myself out of the business and looking down.

00:23:32:17 - 00:23:53:08
Speaker 1
It's a bird's eye view. And I also like I purposely form relationships across the business with people on the front lines with every single group because like, that's how you get a lot of other data. And then I just look at it from like that perspective. It's like from all these different teams, how are they working together? How are they contributing to what our customers need?

00:23:53:16 - 00:24:14:10
Speaker 1
How is information getting to our customers? How is information information traveling within all these different teams? So like, I just, I feel like that's something I just put a lot of effort into doing and I do it consistently as well to like keep pivoting. Like, how can we always get better as a team in our processes? Now we all work together with the customer in mind.

00:24:14:10 - 00:24:44:00
Speaker 1
At the end of the day, I think you hit on something when you said like she just volunteered to do a cold call and then he did. Fast forward to building teams. Like can you talk a little bit about just just that journey? Right. Like, I think a lot of people when they get into sales, they think, okay, well, you know, I'm going to be making phone calls every day for the rest of my life, which, you know, a good salesperson should be on the phone all the time.

00:24:44:07 - 00:25:03:21
Speaker 1
But like, how did you get from, you know, making a cold call to where you are today in in terms of just what mindset did you have to get you there? So I think it was so much less about like thinking about how am I going to be the best manager, like, how am I going to be the best individual contributor?

00:25:03:21 - 00:25:26:18
Speaker 1
I always thought like, how can I become a better leader? Like helps this company. And I never thought like in an individual contributor role, like I could have much influence, like I could have closed big deals, which would be good for the company. But like what I loved doing was helping people's careers grow and like that's what like had me like focus, right?

00:25:26:18 - 00:25:46:01
Speaker 1
Took a step back because like, what's the biggest effect I can have on this business? Initially when it was like managing stars, it's like, how can I teach everything that I learned in this role and then help people grow to like find their own? Like, because you still have to, like, steal all the best things that you learned from all these people.

00:25:46:08 - 00:26:16:08
Speaker 1
But you need to apply yourself to that. And like, yeah, and also like I think it's a very stressful roles like the hardest, like I'd say is one of the more difficult businesses to get into. It's like it's, it's very like non forgiving and like there's a ton of rejection. It's almost like you have to be like such a mentor, like help people really like get through all that because like at the end of the day, like helping them focus on how they're getting better and like all these little tactics that help me, like that's what I felt like I could share.

00:26:16:15 - 00:26:39:08
Speaker 1
And then the confidence of building that business from the ground up gave me the confidence to start the next business within Turbo, which was our sales team, because I also what I noticed in the business was we started once they started managing the SDR team, we were able to get people promoted within three months because at the same time we had great leaders like J.R. in sales management.

00:26:39:13 - 00:27:01:15
Speaker 1
So I knew my job was to drive as much activity to the business, get them as equipped as possible within the SDR role, and then passing them off to like someone like J.R. He's going to teach them everything he can about sales. And considering I had done a lot of selling at triple prior, like I was handing them off with a little bit more knowledge than they would have had in the first place.

00:27:02:11 - 00:27:24:15
Speaker 1
But once we started promoting people so quickly, we started having so many customers come on and like territories, we're getting small so quickly when like customer would go from person to person to person. I noticed like no sales rep would ever talk to their customers. I also noticed in the industry, like there was this giant change from a perpetual software model to a subscription model.

00:27:24:21 - 00:27:53:21
Speaker 1
So like thinking like in my career, my interests, like how could I like help grow this in like, like start being like, like have a bigger role just within the industry? I jumped on that as an opportunity to like start that post sales team. I did that for the next six years at Turbo. I think that's really interesting because the way you described it and I don't know, I don't know if give me back, but it sounded like when you met with him, he instantly saw you and became a mentor to you.

00:27:54:06 - 00:28:18:23
Speaker 1
And then you grew your career out, becoming a mentor for other stars, their leaders, as they came into sales. And J.R., actually, he and I were talking recently and showed me a video of one of his early day business development presentations where he's, you know, he's the new kid on the block and now he's run organizations ten times the size of the group he was a part of then.

00:28:19:03 - 00:28:44:23
Speaker 1
So he has grown through mentoring younger kids coming on. You've grown the same way. Jimmy Mack So I've done it. So, you know, when I think about it from a sales and a sports perspective, it's like when you get in, you're like the freshman. The freshman in base. And when you're getting out here, like the junior, the senior and you're trying to bring up these freshmen, I don't know if that's the right way to think about it, but like what?

00:28:44:23 - 00:29:01:24
Speaker 1
Yeah, one thing. I'm J.R. I'm curious if you remember this, but I feel like I had a pretty good eye for talent in, like, the recruiting side and stuff, like that. Also applied not just to people on my team, but people within the business. Because I remember when J.R. joined, I was like, This guy is going to be unbelievable.

00:29:02:06 - 00:29:21:08
Speaker 1
And you remember, I spent like the first two weeks with you, 2 hours a day until you learned the complete demo faster than anyone's ever learned. It's like, I wouldn't do that for people that wouldn't put in that same effort, but I would do that from people on the team as well. Like I was very honest that I was like, Guys, I wouldn't stay here until midnight.

00:29:21:08 - 00:29:37:23
Speaker 1
If you're willing to put in the work as well, but you have to be getting better. Like if I if we go over something for 8 hours one day, we come back the next day and everything's gone like you're not. That's actually just like anatomy issue. But like, I remember seeing J.R. and just seeing how special he was.

00:29:37:23 - 00:30:00:18
Speaker 1
And in going over his background, I'm like, he can help this business grow. Like, I need to teach him the tech because that's the only thing that he didn't know yet. So what did you look for? What did you see in J.R.? No sense. Just just by my love of those eyes now is deeply. Zeba was the first person I knew.

00:30:01:04 - 00:30:27:23
Speaker 1
We have some mutual friends, but my best friend in college is actually brother in law, one of his best friends in college. So, like, John knows Liam too. Okay. Yeah. Liam. Okay, so Richard's twin sister is married and like, I remember Liam like, gave me a heads up that you were joining. And then when you joined, I could tell, like there was the confidence, the storytelling, and just like, oh, you just like, see this special?

00:30:27:23 - 00:30:49:09
Speaker 1
Like, I don't know what it was like. I mean, yeah, comedy is the storytelling. And like, I could tell, like, you were so determined and I could also tell you were going to make some of the other sales managers jealous in competition and helps the business grow. And I was like, This is going to be unbelievable. Like guys in my role then like I just kind of served everyone.

00:30:49:14 - 00:31:05:12
Speaker 1
So like I was just like, this is going to be the best. Like, let's get him like as good as he can be as quickly as possible. And he's going to take the reins from there and like it's going to help the business grow. They had a rule when I joined John that you couldn't you couldn't make phone calls until you knew the demo.

00:31:05:15 - 00:31:24:23
Speaker 1
Like if like you literally couldn't get on a call with a customer until you knew the demo. And I was coming from selling our competitor VMware, and I had like 40 customers in New England and I was like, I need to get on the phone with these guys. And I was like, Chris was like, Dude, I'll teach you the demo.

00:31:24:23 - 00:31:40:16
Speaker 1
And I was like, this kid that I knew from EMC had had the record. He did it in his he did it like, like Wednesday of his third week. So you had to give it to the CEO, like you literally had to do the demo for the CEO in order to get on the phone with it with with a customer.

00:31:40:24 - 00:31:56:14
Speaker 1
So I told Ben my first day, I was like, Hey, I want to block 30 minutes on your or on Friday. We're going to I'm going to do the demo for you. And Chris literally stayed with me every night and like walked me through every section of the demo. And I put together, like my own version and story around it.

00:31:56:20 - 00:32:23:04
Speaker 1
And then I did it right away. And it was it remained the record forever because eventually they stopped doing that. But, you know, Chris, to your point, though, like I never really thought it as you said it, mentorship is a two way street. Right. And I think that's really, really important. It's important for what we do, especially because we give these kids a really good foundation.

00:32:23:04 - 00:32:43:17
Speaker 1
And I can tell almost immediately what kids are bought in based off like how quickly they go through our content and how and how bought in they are with like the assignment and the tests that we give them. So like the reality is, and I don't think young kids appreciate this as much as they should, is that guys like you and I and John want to help people.

00:32:44:01 - 00:33:06:08
Speaker 1
Right. But you have to put it in. You're part of the effort, right? Like that's kind of what you're saying is. But the belief is that because the other day, like, one thing I realized and this is through Ben as well, is like how valuable your time is. And that's something that like I started thinking about and it also helped me get like better on tops.

00:33:06:08 - 00:33:34:02
Speaker 1
Like I wouldn't waste time, like, like when you realize how valuable your time is actually like you can apply a number to it. Just look at your salary like the divide of number, like is this person worth this amount of time and you give them the first chance and then see how like they respond. But like at the end of the day, if they're not like giving you what like you need to see to like see that they have promise to see that they're driven, like, what's the point in spending?

00:33:34:02 - 00:33:55:03
Speaker 1
Like your valuable time with those people? Like that's not what you should be doing. So true. It's so true. And you get I think you get that clarity. You get further along in your career. And I mean, I'm just thinking like back to the high school football when you're at Mansfield, we were like we were my senior year.

00:33:55:03 - 00:34:12:24
Speaker 1
We won every single game in state champions and we played in the juniors only. They got on the field, but it was a blowout. But we always in practice we did so, so on them. If they missed the block or forgot who was on time or because these kids, we just wanted to teach them about us. Super valuable.

00:34:12:24 - 00:34:32:04
Speaker 1
And I remember they were like, Well, we don't even play, but you guys play Foxborough, we're not even going to get on the field. And then we were like, Yeah, but this is for next year, you know, this is for next year. And they ended up winning and then they were just the start of the class before. So we went out, went on a long run after we did that in 2003 and it was just guys had great leadership.

00:34:32:16 - 00:34:47:21
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's just like we to our leader was top notch. It was like, don't miss a block. I don't care how big the guys don't get the block. And you kind of read that same thing and since you know so it's is cool to hear you say it's a two way street because I think I see that is good.

00:34:47:22 - 00:35:17:06
Speaker 1
So yeah, I mean, J.R. always has this. One last question that I want you ask, too, but I had two, two last question, because me, me and Chris have a mentor in common. He's John. You just heard about him like the first episode, right? The the the namesake of of of our podcast, Merchants of Change is to McInerney, who's like, you know, the coaching tree of sales leadership doesn't get much better than that guy, right?

00:35:17:06 - 00:35:38:22
Speaker 1
Like you look at VP's and CEOs around the country that grew up at BMC and then turbo non-tech and you know, then then even besides, he's producing more, more sales leaders than probably any human being ever has. I would love to hear your favorite Jimmy Mack story if you've got one teed up for us. Oh, there's so many.

00:35:38:22 - 00:35:59:08
Speaker 1
I just been so many time. So much time is off. Is all the other funny one that we had? We had this inside joke because like when Ben became the CEO, he was still full time managing director at Bain DC. So he would like wrap up his day at Bain and then walk in at like six, 6:30 p.m..

00:35:59:15 - 00:36:21:00
Speaker 1
And I remember Jiminy I used to be just like try to wait him out and just like just to show face. It's because he's the new CEO. And like I had a desk that like I could see Jim's face from like inside his office and him, and I'd be like, What is going on here? We'd be like 830 at night and Ben would be in his office and like we'd be like falling asleep at our desk.

00:36:21:00 - 00:36:36:12
Speaker 1
And we had this inside joke that Ben had a twin brother named Kenny and that they just, like, switched off like, size. And like we used to say, the talent has been like used to have an eye twitch. But his other I would twitch and that's how you know, it was Ken. And like he would crack up laughing.

00:36:36:12 - 00:36:59:11
Speaker 1
It's like it was Ken coming in like ready to go and like, nervous about leaving, but like thinking back to a more serious story, he was the person like, help me find my own more than like any other person I remember vividly, whether it was like metrics, meetings or when I went up in front of the company, I was trying to be someone I was not.

00:36:59:11 - 00:37:20:07
Speaker 1
I was like trying to replicate other sales leaders and like their styles and like, remember, Yotam was like very professional aureole and like, Matt O'Brien was like, just like super energetic and like, Steve was like that kind of everything and put together like you and I was trying to be very, very lot like, Yo, Tom, he was like, do like that's not you.

00:37:20:15 - 00:37:36:09
Speaker 1
Like, you are like hysterical. You know, your business. You're a great leader. Like, stop trying to be someone you're not and just get comfortable with who you are. And like, I took it to home and like I remember after that, I started every single time I went up in front of the company, I would start off with a joke.

00:37:36:20 - 00:38:02:21
Speaker 1
And what I found was, number one, it made me so much more comfortable to speak in front of the company. And he got everyone to listen. So now, like people would be get upset if I didn't speak at company lines because like I was the one that had everyone cracking up. I still remember making fun of J.R. and saying he would be bland from the Golden Girls if I had to pick one of them, because putting other sales figures like this would have everyone in stitches.

00:38:02:21 - 00:38:22:17
Speaker 1
But then they they'd all be captivated by what I was saying. So, like, not only did it make me comfortable, but it also like got the point across in like the understood by the everyone I was speaking to, I was like, all right, this is what I'm going to do, like all the time. And like, it was just such a better path and like, trying to just be someone I'm not that that's like, the only advice.

00:38:22:17 - 00:38:43:19
Speaker 1
Like, that's, that's advice you can only get from somebody that knows you like a true mentor, knows you know, hey, I got to this is what I need to say to this kid and this is what I need to say. And I think Jimmy Mack just has that that that knack for understanding what people need to hear at the right time to get them to that next level.

00:38:44:16 - 00:39:17:10
Speaker 1
And I definitely noticed that change in year two, even though I was the brunt of probably like 80% of your jokes, it was more you could dig it. Well, I mean, I can't argue the points thing. I mean, the record speaks for itself. There. All right. So this is this is the last one, Chris. We talk a lot about professionalism, like, you know, talking about, you know, my dad used to say when we were little, like a lot of people play hockey, but but not a lot of people are hockey player.

00:39:17:16 - 00:39:46:14
Speaker 1
Right. Like there's a difference and lot of people sell software, but not a lot of people are software sales professionals. Right. So we think the highest praise you can give to a salesperson is calling them like this. This this guy, this girl is a pro. So so what does being a pro mean to you in this industry? I think being a pro at the end of the day is someone that really looks at their craft and always asks how they can get better.

00:39:46:22 - 00:40:08:02
Speaker 1
And that's like they're asking the people around. Like when I first got to Turbo a rocket first got to Brazil, I met with every single person in sales, in every single department leader in our go to market in the first two weeks, because I wanted to learn everything I can about the business and form these relationships. And you see other people join.

00:40:08:02 - 00:40:44:18
Speaker 1
And I think more about Turbo. The people that didn't do well were the ones that just came in and just like waited and waited to be told what to do, waited to find out when the next training was and like didn't pull anything on themselves and didn't like add unexpected value. I think that's like some of the most valuable people on your team are the ones that, like, bring you ideas, take different approaches, share that feedback with the team consistently versus like, someone is not a professional, they want the transcript and they want they want the template in the slides.

00:40:44:18 - 00:41:08:10
Speaker 1
You're just going to like go through the motions is like the people that see critically about the business and like try to ask questions and like I mean asking questions of being intellectually curious, like huge parts of that in like the sports side of that, I was alluding to it earlier. It's like who's working out? Like who's trying to get stronger, who's trying to get faster, who's who's reading the playbook?

00:41:08:10 - 00:41:35:15
Speaker 1
Like it's the most embarrassing thing in the world is J.V. basketball. When a kid doesn't know the plays, if these are not sophisticated place like care, I mean, like, that is the same exact thing. Yeah, accountability giving. It's like giving a shit. Like, give a shit, like, you know, this is going to be your profession. Like, maximize it, make the most of it, become a student of the game and like do the work and like get out of your comfort zone, right?

00:41:35:16 - 00:42:01:08
Speaker 1
Like, that's it. Accountability. I love that. That great answer, dude. Love it. Chris, this was awesome. Thank you so much for for hanging with John and I today, man I really do appreciate it. Thanks, Chris. I really love it. Miller's Mohawk baby. Love that. Go to name soon but yeah yeah yeah. This is the. Oh, I love it, actually.

00:42:01:10 - 00:42:06:03
Speaker 1
Come on, guys. Thanks, buddy. All right, bye.

00:42:06:23 - 00:42:29:13
Speaker 2
This wraps up this episode of Merchants of Change. If you enjoyed this episode, the most meaningful way to say thanks is to submit a review wherever you listen to podcast. If you're interested in working with us, please come find us at WW Dot Chef Group. Got a.