Merchants of Change

00:36:36:16 - 00:36:54:23
JR Butler/John Davis
Today on Merchants of Change. We talked to former national champion from University of Denver, ice hockey, Andrew Thomas, who's currently the manager of sales and customer success for the elite market at Huddle, who sells performance analysis software to sports organizations all over the world.

00:37:00:18 - 00:37:24:03
JR Butler/John Davis
I'm J.R. Butler, co-founder of the Shift Group. And you're listening to Merchants of Change. Oh, this is a podcast about transferring the skills and behaviors we acquire as athletes into being a professional technology salesperson. Each week, we'll introduce you to a top performer who will help us understand how they became professional merchants of change.

00:37:29:21 - 00:37:30:21
JR Butler/John Davis
What's up, kid?

00:37:31:10 - 00:37:32:06
Andrew Thomas
What's up? Yeah.

00:37:32:15 - 00:37:33:11
JR Butler/John Davis
How you doing, buddy?

00:37:33:17 - 00:37:34:03
Andrew Thomas
Good, man.

00:37:34:03 - 00:37:57:02
JR Butler/John Davis
You good? I'm psyched, baby. I got you solo. John's out today. So everybody, we got. We got Andrew Thomas, Tom and I go way back. So this is going to be a really fun conversation. We've actually really never talked, Tom, or about your transition and about like your view on on sales. So I'm going to be learning a lot even though I know a lot about you.

00:37:58:21 - 00:38:06:16
JR Butler/John Davis
So I'd love to. I guess just a quick background, Tom or me and you met about a decade ago, right?

00:38:06:16 - 00:38:07:16
Andrew Thomas
Elise Yeah.

00:38:08:07 - 00:38:13:15
JR Butler/John Davis
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Through the small world of hockey as as all things, right?

00:38:13:18 - 00:38:31:16
Andrew Thomas
Yeah. Especially in the, especially in the Boston and New England area. But, you know, knowing the Butler family, having grown up in New Hampshire and watching Bobby, you know, kind of where he's a little bit younger than I. But, you know, hearing about Bobby through the years and obviously yourself and Holy Cross, it was destined, destined to happen.

00:38:31:16 - 00:38:35:11
Andrew Thomas
But, you know, always a pleasure with you and your family.

00:38:36:09 - 00:39:03:00
JR Butler/John Davis
So so I think that's a good place to start. You mentioned New Hampshire, right? And you know, New Hampshire is as a kid from Central Mass, I always feel like the the redheaded stepchild of of that the Boston area. Right. Like kids from Boston think that if you go past 93, you're in the boondocks. Right. I try to remind my friends that South Boston isn't the only town with triple deckers.

00:39:03:00 - 00:39:14:02
JR Butler/John Davis
What? What is it? What was it like growing up in in New Hampshire playing sports? And like, what's the culture like up there? How is it the same and different than than down in Massachusetts?

00:39:14:14 - 00:39:35:08
Andrew Thomas
Yeah, I'm sure there's a lot of similarities just you know, the sizes that the huge difference I grew up in a in a small town outside of Concord and you know, a few thousand people there is now 90 kids in my my grade school class all the way through till I got to high school. So, you know, seasonality was a big thing in sports.

00:39:35:08 - 00:39:56:08
Andrew Thomas
You know, you'd roll from the hockey rink right into baseball and lacrosse and you go with kind of the same group of guys and then the next season would roll over and you do the same thing. So for me personally, I think I was fortunate because my my dad had a background in hockey. He was a goalie at Assumption College out in the Worcester area, and then he refereed at a really, really high level for a long time.

00:39:56:08 - 00:40:20:21
Andrew Thomas
And, you know, I was born in Wisconsin, lived there until 1990, so for five years of my life, and then we go back to New England. But that was really my dad's like transition out of hockey and out of refereeing. He was, you know, joined National championships. He, you know, refereed the Olympics and, you know, did some old games, you know, back when there was other professional leagues other than just the NHL.

00:40:20:21 - 00:40:48:00
Andrew Thomas
But he really chose to to take a different path and, you know, support his boys and and their upbringing and, you know, not being away every weekend and I'm sure my mother had a big hand in that of not wanting to spend too many more Saturday nights at the rink. But that was great. And my dad really introduced to a different world outside of New Hampshire youth hockey, you know, and I was able to make a transition down and play the Boston Metropolitan League, which I'm sure you remember.

00:40:48:00 - 00:41:11:11
Andrew Thomas
And it opened my eyes to what competitive hockey was like at that age. And, you know, a lot of a lot of time in the car commuting from New Hampshire or down to Marlborough or, you know, down to the South Shore or something like that. But I was fortunate because I, I started to meet those that group, that kind of that elite group of hockey players at a pretty young age and had some familiarity.

00:41:11:11 - 00:41:35:07
Andrew Thomas
So when the time came and it was a little bit easier to break into it, but I think that helped me long term because I never, you know, as much as I wanted to play college hockey, I wasn't dead set on playing in New England. I think I was considered of any college hockey program that wanted to talk to me, but I also knew that there was just a lot of different environments out there that I could be successful in and I'm sure other people get to.

00:41:36:12 - 00:41:48:05
JR Butler/John Davis
Yeah, dude, I had no idea your dad was around my dad throughout college hockey as well. You now I know my brother Al does and I didn't know he was a Greyhound either. That's crazy.

00:41:48:05 - 00:41:58:22
Andrew Thomas
Yeah. Yeah, that's actually I think he's he holds some records as a goalie and I think one of them is like PSA percentage, but the other is like most goals allowed in my college career.

00:41:58:22 - 00:42:00:24
JR Butler/John Davis
So a lot of is.

00:42:00:24 - 00:42:04:16
Andrew Thomas
Proud of some of not so proud.

00:42:04:16 - 00:42:12:03
JR Butler/John Davis
That's unreal. Did you you didn't just did you just play hockey? You were you were like a multi-sport athlete, right? In high school?

00:42:12:04 - 00:42:30:13
Andrew Thomas
Yeah. I played baseball coming up, and then my brother started playing lacrosse and found some real quick success with it, as well as some other hockey guys that that I knew that made the transition older. And I love lacrosse. I mean, it was, you know, at the time, you know, we were a very athletic, small school in New Hampshire.

00:42:30:13 - 00:42:53:06
Andrew Thomas
So we were competing for state championships every year. And yeah, I was kind of the opposite player in lacrosse and it wasn't hockey, you know, at the time held this, you know, points and gold records at both high school, which is, I guess small school. But, you know, something that was totally an aberration from what I was a hockey player, just a good, strong skating, you know, rugged defenseman.

00:42:53:06 - 00:43:13:03
Andrew Thomas
So it was great. It was my my release away from hockey, being able to really stay in shape, you know, with the amount of a cross requires of you. But it was what I did with my high school buddies because at that point as a junior hockey and it was a much more serious endeavor, even at the age of 15, 16.

00:43:13:03 - 00:43:16:02
Andrew Thomas
So lacrosse was a daring escape at that point.

00:43:17:03 - 00:43:38:15
JR Butler/John Davis
That's good. You get you got to stay connected with your high school buddies even though you're playing in juniors. That's huge. And that's a game changer. Yeah. So you mentioned it like growing up in Massachusetts where in like a hockey hotbed with hockey, right. And like that crew of guys that we all grew up with, it was like, you know, you wanted to play in a big part.

00:43:38:15 - 00:44:03:05
JR Butler/John Davis
You wanted to you wanted to play locally. You wanted to travel around kind of that hockey east kind of factory. But you ended up going to an unbelievable school, right? The University of Denver. Well, how did you end up out there? And what was it like playing in a different part of the country than like really most of all of our friends really ended up locally where you are?

00:44:03:07 - 00:44:06:23
JR Butler/John Davis
You were kind of out of there in the in Colorado.

00:44:07:09 - 00:44:35:09
Andrew Thomas
Yeah, it was a roundabout way. I think I had, you know, to your point, just plain junior hockey, New England playing for the New Hampshire Monarchs at the time, it just assumed Hockey East or or an Ivy League school was kind of in my future. It was great because my dad had such a familiarity with college hockey. He would always just plant the seed in my ear that, you know, there is life outside of hockey and, you know, he had seen what Wisconsin looks like, North Dakota and in Denver at the time.

00:44:35:09 - 00:45:03:08
Andrew Thomas
So like he really understood, you know, as great as hockey used was it's not the whole deal so it was funny when and I'm sure you remember these days you know Worcester still holds a regional and subway regional every year. You go down, you buy one ticket, you get to see two games. And I remember seeing Denver and Michigan play and it was just it was like I mean, these men out there, full beards and that always stuck in my mind and still did.

00:45:03:15 - 00:45:25:12
Andrew Thomas
So I knew that, you know, again, not to be redundant, but there's life outside of hockey east. And then my junior year of high school, I was drafted in the United States Hockey League USA. HL And at the time, you know, I knew I could have stayed local and you know, been comfortable and probably gotten to a place where I could, you know, earn a Division one scholarship here in the East Coast.

00:45:25:24 - 00:45:50:17
Andrew Thomas
But I just I always played over my head and I'd always played with older guys. And I just wanted to see how I could do of the Midwest against the best, you know, North American players that were age eligible before college. I landed in Waterloo, Iowa, and had had a tremendous year. A lot of guys that ended up landing at UAH and Pete McArthur, Matt, Sean Otero, Mike Raja, Kevin Regan.

00:45:50:17 - 00:46:03:17
Andrew Thomas
I mean, the list goes on top of Joe Nowitzki of all people was our captain. So we were it's kind of a a fairytale year. We won the card cup, which was the championship in the U.S. all that season, the playoff championship.

00:46:03:17 - 00:46:06:15
JR Butler/John Davis
Wait, all those people you just mentioned were on your junior team?

00:46:06:15 - 00:46:11:19
Andrew Thomas
Yeah. And there was Derek Whitmore. And I'm Jake Swan.

00:46:11:19 - 00:46:13:10
JR Butler/John Davis
And you guys were a.

00:46:13:23 - 00:46:37:12
Andrew Thomas
Yeah, we were and we didn't know it, you know, like they had made a good run the year before. A lot of good players had left. Reed Cashman was there the year before. I wasn't you know, he's now the coach up at Dartmouth and you just yeah, it kind of came together with the eight seed coming in and ended up having just a great, great playoff run and had some guys like Joe and Matt that carried us a lot of the way.

00:46:37:12 - 00:46:55:16
Andrew Thomas
But you know, early in that year I started to get some some snaps, you know, from some teams. But I figured I'd have to do a few years out there to do a post-graduate year and keep maturing to, you know, at least that's what the Ivy League schools were telling me. And, you know, Denver came and they said, Hey, you're our only recruit for one spot.

00:46:55:19 - 00:47:13:13
Andrew Thomas
You know, you're going to play all four years. You're not to worry about sitting behind anybody and you know, and it's a full scholarship opportunity. So took a visit, fell in love with the town from over the city. And the campus was great. The guys were terrific. And it just seems, you know, it seemed like a really good fit.

00:47:14:10 - 00:47:33:23
Andrew Thomas
Should I probably have taken my time and done, you know, all the visits? I could have, definitely. But I still don't regret the decision at all because, you know, at the time I thought I missed my my opportunity. Right. Because I'm a senior in high school and playing in Waterloo and Denver goes and wins the national championship in Boston.

00:47:34:04 - 00:47:55:16
Andrew Thomas
And I'm like, well, I'd there it goes. You know what team goes back to back, let alone wins it twice in four or five years. And then thankfully it fell into a great situation where at a great class come in with me and then had a lot of guys return and we were able to to do it again my freshman year so lucky that assassin's through.

00:47:57:05 - 00:48:11:10
JR Butler/John Davis
I just saw him play this year in Boston too. Yeah that's unreal. I mean, that's it. And it's it's great because like, you got it out of the way, then it's tough because like, you're living up to that, but 100%.

00:48:11:12 - 00:48:27:19
Andrew Thomas
And it's kind of the expectation, right? Because you win you win two in a row. I was obviously on the back end of those two, but you get a whole new recruiting class that's expecting to come in and do it again. And it's just it's almost retraining them and breaking them down to, hey, you know, every year is different.

00:48:27:19 - 00:48:38:05
Andrew Thomas
It's a it's a marathon and, you know, things aren't handed to yet. But you're right, it's you know, you climb the mountain and then you realize how hard it really is to get up there again.

00:48:39:13 - 00:49:10:08
JR Butler/John Davis
Yeah, but it's also like like one day, you know, Holy Cross different level, like different type of background. But like we when I came in freshman year, they were coming off go into a regional which was a, you know, just go into a regional and Atlantic hockey was a big deal. But one of the things that I appreciate that I think is really like set me up in in my career is like understanding what a winning culture is, understanding, accountability, teamwork, everybody playing a role like I imagine winning a national championship.

00:49:10:08 - 00:49:18:08
JR Butler/John Davis
Your freshman year really gave you a taste of like, all right, this is how a winning organization operates, right? Whether it's sports or business.

00:49:18:20 - 00:49:48:10
Andrew Thomas
I think the most in thinking about this discussion and something that I cherish and I probably don't give enough thought to often, is that the senior class we had that year was a group of very much role players that, you know, they were older, they've seen a lot, they've been through a lot. They're very even keel. So knowing that they all filled the role and they were so consistent in their approach on a daily basis.

00:49:48:20 - 00:50:12:12
Andrew Thomas
And like I said, being in an elite organization, I mean concerned, inherent traits of being an extremely hard worker, you know, being highly, highly effective with your time, your organization. But then to take it further, it's just that consists, Nancy, of breaking down long term goals into really short term, you know, obstacles or short term initiatives. I guess, you could say.

00:50:12:12 - 00:50:43:04
Andrew Thomas
And that translates into any walk of life because you can't you know, again, you can't climb a mountain by doing it all at once. You got to do it step by step. And, you know, overcoming things as they as they present themselves. But yeah, it was the it was just the consistency of that group. And I think that their ability to communicate effectively in those environments when, you know, an 18 year old walking into a 10,000 seat stadium that's filled and loud and now, guys reminded me that it's just no different than practice.

00:50:43:04 - 00:50:55:13
Andrew Thomas
It's it's the same stuff we do every single day. Yeah, it's a it was a lesson that I got, you know, very early on in my life that has proven true in every experience I've had.

00:50:56:18 - 00:51:02:10
JR Butler/John Davis
Yeah, we didn't have that 18,000 person problem at Holy Cross, but I can relate to.

00:51:03:23 - 00:51:05:03
Andrew Thomas
That once in a while or.

00:51:05:04 - 00:51:27:11
JR Butler/John Davis
Yeah. So, so we talked about this in the beginning, Tom. I've known you a long time. You knew me back in back in the old days before I kind of got my my act together a little bit with the with the with the drugs and alcohol. And like one thing I've always looked to you as like a like kind of like an old soul, right?

00:51:27:12 - 00:51:47:03
JR Butler/John Davis
Like, you know, you're like, I look to you like, even though we're friends, I guess somebody I looked up to as, like, a leader. Appreciate that. And and, like, you know, one thing that's, like, really unique about your college career is you were a captain in junior and senior year like. And I think a lot of that has to do with it just like your personality.

00:51:47:15 - 00:51:54:14
JR Butler/John Davis
But like, what do you think? What do you think your teammates saw in you that led to that Captain Ship as a junior and then a senior?

00:51:54:24 - 00:52:29:21
Andrew Thomas
Yeah. I mean, I'd like to think it's it's a sense of reliability. You know, it's people looked at me as a kid, you know, like I said about the seniors when I was a freshman, you know, a really consistent presence and expectations never really wavered. I think I was consistent in that. But the other piece, too, in and I think because it always in my mind, in my heart always came from a place that was really genuine and caring is that I, I really have a high emphasis on accountability and that's for myself, but as well as the people around me.

00:52:29:21 - 00:53:01:21
Andrew Thomas
And I know full well because I've, I've operated and played and worked under leaders that weren't this way, but I've done the same for leaders that were this way that are truly willing to do the hard work with you and empower the people around them to be successful. So a lot of cliches there, but at the end of the day, it's just being I hope it was for my consistent approach to my daily preparation, but also just the high level of accountability that I had for myself, but also the people around me.

00:53:01:21 - 00:53:24:21
Andrew Thomas
And I think it comes from a really genuine and honest place. It's easy to buy into that. It's the people that are saying it, you know, they're saying like, Hey, this is the way it's got to be. But they don't embody that at all. It just makes it so, you know, transparent and, you know, unmotivated or, you know, it lacks motivation for the people around them.

00:53:24:21 - 00:53:47:06
Andrew Thomas
But to have somebody that's done it that wants to keep doing it and does everything they can to do it at the highest level, that's an easy leader to get behind. And I know I've I've ironically fine tuned it since then because, you know, as a college athlete, you remember you're wild. You're a wild man. You're just trying to tackle the world every day you can.

00:53:47:06 - 00:53:56:18
Andrew Thomas
And, you know, every loss you take, like it's a bullet. But now being able to really focus that in my professional life, it's it's paid dividends.

00:53:58:01 - 00:54:25:21
JR Butler/John Davis
I love it. I love it. Yeah. I mean, I think that it's a it's a sense of professionalism a little bit, which is like, yeah, you know, it's no wonder you went on and you went on to after college hockey, you played professionally and you bounced around a bit right East Coast, all over in Europe. What are the biggest differences between the leagues in your opinion, like across because because, you know, we work with a lot of guys like you that played in multiple different leagues in all sports.

00:54:25:21 - 00:54:27:22
JR Butler/John Davis
Like, what do you see is the biggest difference?

00:54:28:11 - 00:54:57:16
Andrew Thomas
Um, it's, it's interesting. Every league has its own reputation. A But then it also has its own identity. Right at the time you CHL was pretty rough and tumble, but like you had yes. Wild's, you know, buildings that you'd play in you know Johnstown where the, you know they they film slap shot and, you know, Redding and Elmira, I mean, just some some hilarious experiences.

00:54:57:20 - 00:55:23:09
Andrew Thomas
You know, looking back on it, the the American Hockey League is is much more professional and in certain ways. Right. You got guys who are really teetering on the cusp of of the NHL and, you know, some of them are really frustrated to be there. So like, it's you see a different dynamic in the locker room, you know, you CHL you're not getting paid much, you're really just living the dream and you're trying to pursue the opportunity in any way that you can.

00:55:23:19 - 00:55:41:18
Andrew Thomas
The American Hockey League, you have guys that are so close they can taste it and like the dynamic locker room is a little bit different. I know Bobby, you know, experience out of it. And, you know, I never cracked the NHL, but, you know, had a lot of exposure to coaches and athletes, you know, that that had lived both lives.

00:55:41:18 - 00:56:02:18
Andrew Thomas
So that was really cool for me. I mean, everything was so much sharper in the NHL, the play, the preparation, the the overall skill set. But I, I loved my time and my teammates in the NHL. Still some of my best friends to this day because they're, you know, just just living the dream, trying to pursue pro hockey in any way they can.

00:56:02:18 - 00:56:23:20
Andrew Thomas
But but Europe was I'm so happy I did it because it gives you an appreciation for, you know, the game and what it's given you and what you put into it and the opportunity to see the world and live in a different environment. But you also, I think culturally it shaped me a lot different, right where I went over for two years, living in a different place.

00:56:24:11 - 00:56:43:10
Andrew Thomas
You know, in so many ways I was the minority, you know, only English speaking guy on my team. My last year. And one of the only English speaking guys, definitely the only North American, but it is humbling. And then you come home and you see the privileges that we have here and you see that the life that we can lead here.

00:56:43:10 - 00:57:08:21
Andrew Thomas
And it's, it's, it's a tremendous experience for anybody, anyone that could ever do that and whatever business that you're in. But yeah, it's helped me find a little bit of my offensive side, which, you know, I was never guilty of here in North America when I was playing, but it was great. It's certainly wouldn't trade any of the stops, even though there were many for for anything.

00:57:10:06 - 00:57:24:13
JR Butler/John Davis
Absolutely. So. So yeah, we have a great career. Denver You get to play professional hockey all over the world and the whole time you're like, I can't wait to get into tech sales, right? Like that's what you going to do.

00:57:24:13 - 00:57:43:23
Andrew Thomas
And I think this is probably true of a lot of athletes and especially the college ones, because I think there's this I think there's this misconception or conception, whether it's true or not, that, you know, players that come from Canada, that come from major junior hockey, that like hockey's their only avenue right is their only thing that they can do with their lives.

00:57:43:23 - 00:58:06:01
Andrew Thomas
And college, you know, college educated players that play pro hockey or they've got their degree, they're going to go do something else. And I think that almost works as a disservice to college guys because it makes people think that we don't care as much, which was never the case. But I did know I had a degree. I didn't know that it was depreciating every year that I was playing the game.

00:58:06:22 - 00:58:25:13
Andrew Thomas
So the last few years, I mean, honestly, of the six years I played, probably the last three, I had a little bird on my shoulder, just chirp in my in my ear saying like, Hey, what's next? What's next? What are you going to do? What are you going to do? And and I think a big part of that and it's funny, you mentioned the beginning of this conversation how, you know, we we haven't talked too much.

00:58:25:14 - 00:58:39:20
Andrew Thomas
We've known each other for so long that we haven't talked too much about, you know, my career and stuff like that. And I think that's a byproduct of how much I was trying to learn from you at the time, too, because I was seeing what you were doing with your career and seeing the success that you were having.

00:58:39:20 - 00:59:09:08
Andrew Thomas
And every chance I was getting was trying to pick your brain and figure out, you know, what goes into being successful in something else. And I took the roundabout way after the game, you know, I stayed in hockey on a coaching staff seeing if, you know, maybe coaching was still in my blood, figured out pretty quickly it wasn't met my my girlfriend at the time just before my last years now my wife and you know knew that hey I love I love to know what a Friday and Saturday night looked like.

00:59:09:08 - 00:59:28:16
Andrew Thomas
Again, I'd love to settle down and be closer to the home to my family. So coming back to Boston was really the easiest decision I could make at the time. But the hardest decision was figuring out what I wanted to do. And, you know, we both know a lot of former hockey guys that are in the commercial construction world.

00:59:28:16 - 00:59:51:19
Andrew Thomas
And, you know, we're finding a lot of success there. And it's Nate's was tangible. Boston's growing every day and you know maybe I'll get into that and did a few years in project management really learned what the blue collar and not that I was doing it by any means I mean I was a project manager at the time, but seeing blue collar work every day, you know, helping open up job sites at 530 in the morning.

00:59:51:19 - 01:00:12:04
Andrew Thomas
And that was a humbling experience in and of itself. But tech sales was something that obviously it's new be successful in other people be successful in. But my fear was that in the end, I think this is probably the same fear of a lot of people that are going to work with Shift is that, you know, I don't want to start over.

01:00:12:08 - 01:00:31:03
Andrew Thomas
I don't want to go bang the phones, you know, being 30 years old or 28 years old with a bunch of 21 or 22 year olds, you know, I just I'm too proud to do that. And I think the best advice that anyone ever gave me and I heard it from a number of people, yourself included, is don't don't cheat it.

01:00:31:03 - 01:00:58:02
Andrew Thomas
Like, don't do it. Don't skip a step. You know, make sure you get the foundation that you need. And, you know, it's ironic because I was interviewing at Huddle, you know, back when I was working in commercial construction management and I had no sales experience, I didn't really know what I was talking about on the phone. I didn't really understand how to answer any questions are being asked of me, went out, got, you know, two or three years of of true foundational sales experience.

01:00:58:02 - 01:01:15:02
Andrew Thomas
And then I learned back at Huddle and I've been really successful for it. So as uncomfortable as it is, I'd encourage anybody, just don't cheat, don't cheat the system, you know, do it by the book, do it the right way. You'll thank yourself, walk them.

01:01:15:02 - 01:01:38:17
JR Butler/John Davis
Yeah. I mean, we talk a lot about especially with the older guys like yourself that are that are like in their late twenties, early thirties, transitioning out of the game like the reality is you do you got to kind of carry the water bottles again, right? Like that's kind of that the euphemism that we use. And I think like, you know, you'd be shocked now like some of the complex things for these BTR rolls are, but they're pretty close to six figures in a lot of cases.

01:01:38:17 - 01:01:56:23
JR Butler/John Davis
So it's like you're not really taking a step back financially. Yes, you're going to be working with some younger people. But you know, that should give you energy and enthusiasm more than anything else because, you know, you're going to get the look earlier for that for that next promotion to account executive because of your maturity and life experience.

01:01:56:23 - 01:02:15:08
JR Butler/John Davis
So we just remind them of that. But hearing it from somebody other than me is, is super powerful. So thanks for mentioning that. Now, was it was it conversations with guys like me that kind of got your ears perked up for sales? Sales? Like why? Why, why was sales always something that you were like in the back of your head?

01:02:15:08 - 01:02:19:08
JR Butler/John Davis
Like, Okay, I think I could I could go in that direction someday after project manager.

01:02:19:08 - 01:02:42:06
Andrew Thomas
Yeah, it's funny and I think my dad, well, I think he'd admit to this is that, you know, he was in sales. You sold abrasives, you know, grinding wheels and diamond tools and two manufacturing companies and I think the running joke among my friends is like, hey, is your dad out of a job? It does he work. And all it was is, you know, because he was able to take me to practice.

01:02:42:06 - 01:02:58:22
Andrew Thomas
He's able to, you know, be in every game. And he was just a big part of my my life athletics and and I, you know, so appreciative for that. But the ironic piece is, you know, and looking back, it's he was just really good at his job. Yeah. He had his book of business and he was a great salesman.

01:02:58:22 - 01:03:21:21
Andrew Thomas
He maintained his relationships and was able to really reap the benefits of that and leverage the flexibility that the role offered him. So I always look back and now looking back, it's it seems kind of like a natural transition for me. But I think the biggest piece is working in construction and working in the hockey world after playing is just wasn't scoreboard right.

01:03:21:22 - 01:03:55:08
Andrew Thomas
Like I, I couldn't judge myself against my peers. I didn't feel that I was being compensated for my effort because I was I just don't myself the everything that I do professionally. So I wanted to see some financial reward for that piece. So the scoreboard piece I think was a big motivator for it. And also that I just saw it, you know, the software industry in Boston was just taking such a skyrocketing, you know, turn and the opportunities that were growing.

01:03:55:08 - 01:04:12:18
Andrew Thomas
And I said, you know, hey, if I can go if I can go get the foundational knowledge now and do it quickly and efficiently, you know, it's not going to take that long to get to the next place. And, you know, now staying at a company for four or five years is almost a long time. And it is wild.

01:04:13:12 - 01:04:35:24
Andrew Thomas
And I think I'm a I'm a good example of kind of how you can, you know, go place the place and get reap the benefits of certain company cultures and, you know, training opportunities and things like that. But, you know, finding a place like Hudl where it's allowed me to leverage that experience and grow into new roles, has been really valuable.

01:04:36:20 - 01:04:59:18
JR Butler/John Davis
Yeah, it is a it's a different type of culture now like that. Four or five year kid is so rare. Yeah, right. You're seeing a lot of a lot of like one, 2 to 3 years, Spence Max because there is so much opportunity now, right? Everything's being disrupted by software. You see it in the sports world with companies like Hudl, and you're seeing it in health care, property construction.

01:04:59:18 - 01:05:17:11
JR Butler/John Davis
And I mean, there isn't an industry out there that isn't disrupted with software. So well, so and to your point, like you can also you can learn to sell software in one space and use that to get into the space you ultimately want to get into, which is exactly what you do. Yeah, right. Yeah.

01:05:17:16 - 01:05:49:19
Andrew Thomas
And that's I think a connection of ours was my first my first business development manager, Chris and Rafi and I showed up at Mendix. You know, as a, as a Green 28, 29 year old BTR and you know, that week we were purchased by Siemens like literally like the week I got there. So I was able to see what a small company getting by being acquired by one of the biggest in the world, what that looks like on the office floor.

01:05:50:03 - 01:06:20:08
Andrew Thomas
And it was I mean, not to be overly dramatic, but it was like euphoric for the people that I saw that had stock that they and I know you've gone through this personally like that just it changes their lives. So seeing that was like, okay, there's the shot in the arm, I need to go do this right. And to Siemens and Mendix, I was able to get some really formal and intensive sales training that, to your point, is literally applicable in every technology market that you work in.

01:06:20:09 - 01:06:45:08
Andrew Thomas
The only thing that changes are the personas that maybe you're selling to and the things that they value. But the process and typically the, you know, the typical objections and the issues or the obstacles that you face in sales cycles will be very, very similar regardless of what you're doing. And and it's great, too, because I think it afforded me a chance at Hudl to, to introduce new ideas to people that didn't have that.

01:06:45:08 - 01:06:59:03
Andrew Thomas
And even sales leaders who we really appreciate about it. So you're so right that if if you find a place that can teach it to you the right way, it's just going to accelerate your growth so much in the long term.

01:06:59:19 - 01:07:23:14
JR Butler/John Davis
Yeah, we talk like we have like client hiring partners in every industry. And you know what I tell our guys is like, listen, like big girls is like, listen, the first job is, is it's not about your comp. It's not about, you know, it's not about the industry, the product. None of that necessarily matters. What matters is are you going to get trained in develop and do you have a good leader that can be a mentor?

01:07:23:14 - 01:07:46:13
JR Butler/John Davis
And it sounds like obviously I know Kristen like someone like that, taking you under their wing early days is critical and it sounds like you kind of went in, like knowing like, all right, I just want to ramp as fast as I can because I don't want to be a BTR forever. What are the ways? Like we have kids, a lot of kids that go into that BTR role with the goal of like, I just want to get to 80 as fast as I can.

01:07:46:13 - 01:07:53:00
JR Butler/John Davis
Like what are, what are some ways that that and tools that you use to get that ramp time accelerated.

01:07:53:01 - 01:08:26:06
Andrew Thomas
Yeah I think it's it's applying the work ethic that's necessary to be a high level athlete and just putting it on top of your day to day because inherently, you know, elite athletes are just going to perform out trying and outperform their peers. So like that's your immediate leg up the day that you walk in the door. So like just being confident to that and being reliant on that is super important because it's easy no matter who you are, no matter what out you are, if you're in a new environment, people aren't looking at you like they're looking at you like everybody else.

01:08:26:06 - 01:08:46:12
Andrew Thomas
They're not looking at you like a former Division one or high level athlete. You're just another, you know. But in the seat. So what should be happening, you know, kind of under the or in your mind or, you know, internally at that time is just knowing that, hey, I'm going to work everybody here. So relying on that's really, really important.

01:08:46:12 - 01:09:07:04
Andrew Thomas
I think the other piece, too, is, is just trying to trying to understand what everybody in the business does and what the most successful people in those roles like. What do they do and can you learn from that? Can you take pieces that work really, really well? And in those conversations is like, hey, in your first week here, what didn't work?

01:09:07:04 - 01:09:25:16
Andrew Thomas
Like, what didn't work? Well, what should I just avoid? What should I not waste my time doing? Because time is of the essence, right? Like, you know, in sport, you can dump yourself into it. You can in the business as well, but you can only sell so many hours a day. So making sure that you're making really efficient use of your time is super important too.

01:09:25:16 - 01:09:58:04
Andrew Thomas
But it's funny. It's a balancing act like you want to ramp as quickly as you can, but you can't do it too fast. Like you have to take your losses and you have to remember that being a business development rapper, you know anything of the sort where you're doing cold calling it is the hardest job in sales. Like it's again hung up on your pets and people off your kitchen, you know, at lunchtime or, you know, you just got to get creative and stay really, really even keel throughout the process.

01:09:58:04 - 01:10:09:04
Andrew Thomas
And I know a lot of teams adopt the phrase trust the process, but it's true. Just have faith in yourself and you'll come in repetitions or will yield higher performance.

01:10:10:10 - 01:10:26:01
JR Butler/John Davis
Yeah. Perfect practice makes perfect. Absolutely cool. You Dad, you worked for a bunch of different people. Do you have, like, a mentor that stands out and like the lessons that you took from them that that like, don't you take with all the time.

01:10:26:03 - 01:10:46:19
Andrew Thomas
Yeah, there's been I mean I've only had a few stops, but there's been a lot of people I mentioned Kristen. I mean, she's been in like just a, you know, kind of a sounding board for things that I've wanted to do in my career, changes that I've wanted to make. And I think she's quietly, you know, laid in advice without telling me what to do.

01:10:46:23 - 01:11:14:12
Andrew Thomas
And I've always really appreciated that about her and what I consider now to be a friendship more than a mentor mentee. But, you know, senior sales leaders at Mendix like Bill Fitzgerald at IKEA, my god, he's seen it all right. At EMC, IBM. And then, you know, now he's at Google. He's he's seen a lot of stuff and just a true Boston sports guy like I mean, cut from the cloth that we've always known and we've always known.

01:11:14:12 - 01:12:00:23
Andrew Thomas
And he's been tremendously successful. And then reps mendix like oh got Tom Gallagher played hockey the Providence brand and Brendan super can just I mean seeing true enterprise sales in a really complex environment and just the way that they carried themselves through those conversations was always really helpful for me. And then, you know, jumping to a startup like share market with Kevin Frechette, Tarek, Mike, I mean, guys that were younger than me and again like just still being in that environment to learning every single day and really seeing like what sourcing all the way to closing and certainly didn't have that many closes in my time there.

01:12:00:23 - 01:12:24:01
Andrew Thomas
But you know so but running the whole deal cycle and being given that opportunity and afforded it, I'm really appreciative of it. And now working with people here at Hudl that have been in the sports technology industry for 20 years and we sell on a on a global footprint right to Manchester United and Chelsea. And you know, I'm right down the street from you and C and Duke.

01:12:24:01 - 01:12:34:09
Andrew Thomas
So it's it's been a wild ride so far. But, you know, it's it's because of all the people that have allowed me the opportunities and have given me the advice that needed.

01:12:34:22 - 01:12:57:13
JR Butler/John Davis
I love the idea of getting started in your career selling like a very disruptive, unbudgeted software where your competition is business as usual because that is the hardest thing to sell in the world, right? I did two years as a CEO in low code and I know exactly what you're talking about when it comes to that complex environment.

01:12:57:13 - 01:13:12:18
JR Butler/John Davis
Right. You're basically trying to convince people to do things differently than they have for the last 50 years. It's hard, but it's so good and it's such a good foundation to build upon. As you kind of grow in your in your career. Yeah, I can totally appreciate.

01:13:13:00 - 01:13:28:01
Andrew Thomas
It teaches you to push towards like true value and types and things that you can touch and see rather than features and functionality, which I know is just the biggest misstep. So many reps out there. But yeah, it's a great.

01:13:28:01 - 01:13:54:12
JR Butler/John Davis
Point now that that leadership kind of background has also played into your sales career, you made a switch that I made. I made it when I was like a little bit younger at like 28. But you did it recently, going from, you know, that individual contributor to to building and running a team. What was that adjustment like for you and where did you see like your biggest even as a natural born leader?

01:13:54:12 - 01:13:57:23
JR Butler/John Davis
Like where were there gaps in your skill set that you had to beef up?

01:13:58:04 - 01:14:20:06
Andrew Thomas
Yeah, it's a lot of gaps, I think. I think the people side came really easy to me. Like, I think, you know, moving from, you know, being part of a pod where, you know, shoulder to shoulder with all my colleagues to an all my peers, to then being the manager of that pod was, you know, for some, I think could be a really strange transition.

01:14:20:06 - 01:14:46:04
Andrew Thomas
But I tried my best to be as transparent as I could and, you know, just tell them that things are pretty much status quo. I'm just going to be helping helping you guys now rather than working alongside you and really be more of a part of your day to day. So the transition was pretty easy, I think where I really had to ramp up and spend a lot of nights and a lot of weekends was just the data piece of forecasting it, you know, things that really matter to senior leadership.

01:14:46:04 - 01:15:20:24
Andrew Thomas
And as a company that's now partnered with private equity, that's in a really in a really unique position of growth right now. I think we're really focused on that stuff. But intrinsically, I what I look back on and I think was the hardest part for me and probably a lot of a lot of the people that ship and work with in their hardest adjustment is just going to be helping former athletes and we attract a lot of them through the transition of leaving sport and coming into business because it's tough.

01:15:20:24 - 01:15:40:14
Andrew Thomas
I mean, I don't want to sugarcoat it. Like I think something I was thinking about leading up to this, is that something I wish I had more than just a few friends like yourself that had gone through it is a community of people that can help you through it and that you can share frustrations and sadness, right? Like you're redefining yourself here.

01:15:42:02 - 01:16:03:05
Andrew Thomas
It can be really tough. And I think people think it's like, all right, it can be a few weeks of adjustment. It's now two years. Like I still am just watching NHL games like regularly again, you know, because it's now it's just all kids. I don't have to worry about seeing, you know, a lot of my former teammates, there's still some, but it doesn't sting as much anymore.

01:16:03:05 - 01:16:19:08
Andrew Thomas
But it's it takes years. And I think being really vocal about it. And, you know, for me now in a management role, having people on my team that are going through it or have gone through it, hopefully they can look to me as somebody that they can at least communicate with and share that that struggle with.

01:16:20:19 - 01:16:39:10
JR Butler/John Davis
Yeah. And like, I don't know how you think about it, but like when I think about leading teams, I look at it like a lot of people are like, All right, this is the boss and these are the people that work for the boss. For me as a great leader, you work for your team right. Like your your job is to make them successful.

01:16:39:10 - 01:16:57:19
JR Butler/John Davis
Like when I think of mediocre sales leadership, I think of the people that they care about their number. And if they hit their number, they had a good year. But like, that's not really what what great leadership is, is like, hey, I work for you and I'm not successful unless you're successful. That kind of like, is that your view on like how you're running your teams now?

01:16:58:02 - 01:17:35:24
Andrew Thomas
Yeah, I servant leadership. I mean it's you know, I think the phrase in the book is, you know leaders it lasts and it's I'm a huge believer in my my current manager our director North American sales you know key and like me during my interview process of hey, there's enabling and then there's empowering and are you going to be an enabler or are you going to empower people and like that to me and understanding the differentiation between I, I'm going to do the job for you or I'm going to give you the skills and the resources and the guidance to go do it yourself with a huge difference.

01:17:35:24 - 01:17:59:07
Andrew Thomas
And it results in dollars and cents in our business. But I'm really open with my team of, Hey, I want to know what your professional aspirations are and what your personal aspirations are. And I want to help you get there. And you know, if it's giving you the skills that you experience here to go be really, really successful somewhere else, then I'm going to be your biggest advocate.

01:17:59:07 - 01:18:16:06
Andrew Thomas
Like I'm never going to hold you back from an opportunity because that's what I always appreciated out of leaders was and we want to move you on. We want you to be successful here. We want you to help us win here. And then we want you to go do stuff that's going to challenge long term and be successful for you and your your career grow.

01:18:16:07 - 01:18:30:21
Andrew Thomas
So yeah, look for leaders like that, never look for to your point it's if you get that's worried about a number and then pushes you out in the cold and to go get that number that's you know, have faith in yourself. But that's not the right place to be.

01:18:31:19 - 01:18:55:07
JR Butler/John Davis
Yeah, we try to avoid that type of culture with every company that we work with, so I can't agree more. It's so important. Leadership is the most important thing to look for in your first company, especially All right. Last couple questions, buddy. Thank you for sticking it out with us now. A pleasure. So this one, we ask everybody this most memorable commission check and what you did with the cash.

01:18:55:13 - 01:19:26:11
Andrew Thomas
So these are oh, geez, last last year, last August, a prominent ask school. And the negotiation was a peace negotiation took three months. I was dealing with a true procurement person that didn't understand the value of any of our products. I wasn't listening to the users, wasn't moving by and everywhere except this one person that was just.

01:19:26:11 - 01:19:28:00
JR Butler/John Davis
Just wanted their pound of flesh.

01:19:28:00 - 01:19:36:24
Andrew Thomas
Exactly. Was, you know, and for them it's a sport. For them they're not getting emotional. For me, it's it's a huge change in my normal income, you know.

01:19:36:24 - 01:19:40:02
JR Butler/John Davis
And diapers, dude, it's over. It's formula.

01:19:40:02 - 01:20:09:17
Andrew Thomas
It's all that. But we made it through and it was, it was the largest deal and the end of that year. And, you know, I just I it was the most it was the biggest trench battle I've had in sales. And to figure out a way for us to both walk away feeling like we won, I think was my biggest my the thing I hold my hat on, bought a new driver and I named it I named it after the procurement guy.

01:20:09:20 - 01:20:17:04
Andrew Thomas
So I worked on it, worked out well in May and the rest goes into the diaper fund.

01:20:17:04 - 01:20:24:02
JR Butler/John Davis
So you said you shouldn't be naming the golf ball after the guy playing days something a little later. Yeah.

01:20:24:13 - 01:20:30:17
Andrew Thomas
Well, yeah, you remember you remember the big wins, but you're also remember the losses here and.

01:20:30:17 - 01:20:50:16
JR Butler/John Davis
That's totally, totally that's why you learn more. So this one I got, I kind of stole from my dad. My dad used to tell us when we were growing up, you know, hey, listen, a lot of people play hockey, but there's not a lot of hockey players, right? There's a difference between. And I think in any career that you could say that.

01:20:50:16 - 01:21:08:22
JR Butler/John Davis
Right. A lot of people sell software, but not a lot of people are software sales professionals. Right. So like, we think the highest praise you can give a salesperson is calling them a pro. You know, so so what is, you know, in in sales specifically what is being a pro mean to you?

01:21:10:02 - 01:21:47:11
Andrew Thomas
Elite communication. That's to me because it's something that I've really tried to focus on of being very measured in my words and very thoughtful of how you say things and the environment that you say them in. And I think it it trickles into so many, you know, external parts of not only your personal and professional life, but in a deal if if you come across gen and hopefully you genuinely feel like you care about the customer and you care about the process and the people that are involved in it.

01:21:47:11 - 01:22:29:16
Andrew Thomas
But if your communication is very, very pointed, direct, clear and honest, I mean, it's really hard to lose may lose that deal, but people will never forget the way that you treated them. They're never going to forget the experience that they had with you. So just being an elite communicator, I think all service so well in your professional life because again, the people that are going to be working with Shift are so already above and beyond the norm in this industry with a lot of the intangibles that if you can work on your communication, if you can work on your messaging, it's going to be it's just going to skyrocket to the next level.

01:22:29:16 - 01:22:55:15
Andrew Thomas
And that's something that I've always appreciated of pros like yourself and other people that we've known as, like they can inspire with, you know, off the cuff sentences and they can see four or five steps down the road because of their experience. And they can communicate that to people that haven't been in that position. All these things add up to just a much higher likelihood of success, you know, and everything.

01:22:55:15 - 01:22:57:14
Andrew Thomas
You put your mind to it.

01:22:57:16 - 01:23:18:11
JR Butler/John Davis
I love that answer. We haven't gotten that one before, but it's so true. That's that is that that is the differentiator for success a lot of the times is how you communicate and just being thoughtful and, and careful in how you how you communicate. That was awesome period. Unreal conversation timer. Thank you so much, but I really appreciate it's good to see you.

01:23:18:11 - 01:23:22:15
JR Butler/John Davis
Hopefully I get to see that that procurement driver in action this summer. But yeah.

01:23:22:16 - 01:23:24:23
Andrew Thomas
Exactly. That'd be great. My my treat.

01:23:25:21 - 01:23:28:05
JR Butler/John Davis
All right, buddy, thank you so much for joining us.

01:23:28:05 - 01:23:28:12
Andrew Thomas
Thanks.

01:23:28:13 - 01:23:54:05
JR Butler/John Davis
Those this wraps up this episode of Making Some Change. If you enjoyed this episode, the most meaningful way to say thanks is to submit a review wherever you listen to podcasts. If you're interested in working with us, please come find us at WW Dot Chef Group Dot I.