Merchants of Change

00:00:03:23 - 00:00:28:15
Speaker 1
I'm J.R. Butler, co-founder of the Shift Group. And you're listening to Merchants of Change. Oh, this is a podcast about transferring the skills and behaviors we acquire as athletes into being a professional technology salesperson. Each week, we'll introduce you to a top performer who will help us understand how they became professional merchants of change.

00:00:33:20 - 00:00:36:00
Speaker 2
What's up, Kid? How are we doing, Jimmy?

00:00:36:20 - 00:00:40:22
Speaker 3
We're doing well. Jay, I appreciate the opportunity to spend some time with you today.

00:00:41:15 - 00:01:22:02
Speaker 2
Absolutely. We have a very special guest today. The name of the podcast merchants. The change was the phrase from a wooden sign that sat behind my very good friend here, the desk, all the way back to the EMC days and Franklin, Mass. And Hopkinton, Mass. For review. And each grad had been in sales and sales leadership for more than two decades, but hired and inspired several young sellers like myself, probably more than 4000 salespeople during his career, legendary in the Boston area, especially with folks who've had the privilege to work alongside him like myself.

00:01:22:17 - 00:01:50:01
Speaker 2
You know, I think you're named I think the name Jimmy Mack has come up on every single episode we've recorded so far. Employee number 12 at my former employee Turbo Turbo Gnomic Building, where I had one of the most highly regarded sales forces in Boston, Massachusetts. And Turbo, as we've talked about before, was recently acquired by IBM for $2 billion, just announced the new role on LinkedIn.

00:01:50:21 - 00:01:59:00
Speaker 2
So I think he's going to hit another home run at Blink. And ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Jim McInerney. How are you, Jimmy?

00:01:59:12 - 00:02:22:01
Speaker 3
I'm doing great. He said a lot of really nice things right there. I appreciate that. That's not how I like to think of myself. But yeah, you spent a lot of time doing something and you meet a lot of people. It's just good to know that I picked a profession that obviously worked out. And most importantly, I met a lot of great people along the way, like you and Sully and everybody else.

00:02:22:01 - 00:02:25:00
Speaker 3
So I'm psyched to do this and help in any way I can.

00:02:25:15 - 00:02:34:16
Speaker 2
Absolutely. I was lucky enough to spend some time this morning with a former protege is. And he was so jealous that I got to talk to you today.

00:02:36:05 - 00:02:36:23
Speaker 3
Hollywood.

00:02:38:06 - 00:02:58:15
Speaker 2
Yeah. So, Jimmy, we we talked about, you know, the name of this, the podcast and I asked your permission to use it, but I actually never really heard the kind of the origin story of merchants of change. Where did you first hear those words?

00:02:58:17 - 00:03:25:11
Speaker 3
Yeah, it wasn't so much. Where did I first hear them? It was it was it was a conversation that I had with it with a guy named Tony to tell it in. It was probably July of 1993. So that goes back now. And I say that for a lot of people that probably will listen to this. It sounds like I grew up during the Eisenhower administration, but, you know, time goes fast.

00:03:26:08 - 00:03:48:02
Speaker 3
But just, you know, the net of it is, is that I graduated from you and age. I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. My dad was in automobile sales, but I didn't want to do that. And at that time, there was really no Internet. Yeah, we didn't have cell phones, you know, like the technology boom didn't happen yet.

00:03:48:02 - 00:04:13:10
Speaker 3
So I took a job coming out of college. I responded to like a size of a stamp ad in the back of the Boston Globe and a help wanted section. And the name of the ad was with the name of the company was Diversified Communications. And the idea was that if you wanted to get into entry level sales, you had one of two choices either a sale copy machines door to door, or B, sell fax machines door to door.

00:04:13:10 - 00:04:38:16
Speaker 3
And that was like high technology back then. And as I replied and I got to know the guy who owned the company who was prepping me for all my interviews. I really loved the guy like he was so helpful to me. He was a great coach. He always had the right thing to say. You know, I felt so prepared and I was so moldable at that stage of my career.

00:04:38:19 - 00:05:02:16
Speaker 3
I was just getting going and I wanted to figure out like, how do you how do you become successful? And this guy looked good. He sounded good. He had his own company, nice house in and out of the house down the queue. And he had it all going on. And so for me, I'm looking at this guy who's teaching me what I need to be similar to what you're probably spending a lot of time on today with a lot of, you know, people.

00:05:02:16 - 00:05:27:21
Speaker 3
And in transition, I ended up taking the job, working for him. I, you know, I, he prepped me for all my interviews. And the problem was, is that every time I met with him, I was more excited about meeting with him than I was the companies I was meeting with. And so I went into him one day where he thought I was going to go in kind of for a final prep and I was going to get a job and he was going to make some money off of me.

00:05:28:07 - 00:05:41:07
Speaker 3
And I said, Tony, I don't think I want to do this. He's like, What do you mean you don't want to do this? I said, Well, I've been thinking about it a lot, and every time he come over here and talk to you, I leave, you know, excited. I'm inspired by this whole thing. I want to work with you.

00:05:41:18 - 00:06:01:10
Speaker 3
And he laughed. He's like, Listen, Jimmy, you're a good kid, but you don't know anything about what's going on in business. And, you know, we're talking to people that have been in, you know, sales for ten, 20, sometimes 30 years. So it's going to be really hard for you to have any sort of credibility. But I'm happy to help you get going and maybe we can talk down the road.

00:06:02:08 - 00:06:19:00
Speaker 3
And I was like, Listen, I don't think so. You know, yeah, I have a lot to learn, but if you just give me a desk and give me a chance to come in here every day, I promise. You want me to work my tail off and you know, if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. But I'm willing to take that risk if you're willing to give me a shot.

00:06:19:08 - 00:06:41:18
Speaker 3
So he said, Let me think about it. I'll talk to the guys. And he gave me a chance. Let me fast forward so I get in there. Everyone else is in their early thirties. I'm like 22 and I am that obnoxious guy in the corner. Like we'll not put the phone down like I'm on the phone all day and people are kind of looking at me like they probably wanted to take me in the parking lot and just bury me.

00:06:42:05 - 00:07:04:03
Speaker 3
But that was that was what I was told I needed to do. So that's what I did. So I started actually making placements pretty quickly, not because they knew what I was doing. It was just that I was working hard and I was finding opportunity, just dumb luck, right? And I placed a guy one day who had been like, looking for a job for probably close to a year.

00:07:04:03 - 00:07:30:20
Speaker 3
He was an old digital equipment company guy. You know, those guys were considered dinosaurs and his skills aren't really translatable into the new software world. A few little software companies were sprouting up. Well, I ended up placing the guy in one of these companies and but at the same time, I was so excited about placing that after the high of the deal wore off, I was something was bothering me.

00:07:30:21 - 00:07:47:17
Speaker 3
I couldn't figure out. I couldn't figure it out. Finally I realized everything that I'm telling these people they need to be in do to go get these jobs I wasn't doing, which was you got to get specialized in technology. You got to build a path. You got to surround yourself with people in that industry and all this stuff.

00:07:48:10 - 00:08:12:07
Speaker 3
And yet I was just a generic headhunter. And so I said to them, I said, Tony, like everything you've taught me and what I should be doing to tell these people I'm not really doing, I'm just kind of place and sales people. And yeah, I like making money, but I'm going to wake up and five years from now, I wish I was one of those people and, and he's like, Well, what's really bothering you about that?

00:08:12:07 - 00:08:33:14
Speaker 3
I said, I'm just a generic sales guy. And he's and he kind of looked at me and he said, Jimmy, I'll tell you something right now. I don't want you to ever forget it. So the rest of your career, I said, okay. He said, You're not a generic sales guy just because you're not specialized yet. He said, you're a merchant, changed.

00:08:34:02 - 00:08:56:23
Speaker 3
And I started kind of giggling like I'm like, Okay, well, what does that mean? And he's like, Just think about this. That guy was on the job market for a year. That guy was sitting there every day. He's get three kids. They're watching their dad try to get a job strike out time after time after time. Guy's wife probably wanted to do something, you know, join the tennis club, do this, do that.

00:08:56:23 - 00:09:16:14
Speaker 3
But she probably didn't because he was tight on money and he's like, you didn't just get that guy a job, Jimmy. He's like, that guy looks like a hero now. His kids are psyched, right? The family's excited to go out for a steak dinner on Saturday night. His wife loves him again. You know all this. He's like, you created that.

00:09:16:23 - 00:09:40:20
Speaker 3
So it isn't about just being a sales guy. He's like, you brought change into an entire family and the company that hired him wants him. So that's how you need to think about the power you have as a salesperson. And I kind of was like, Wow, okay, that's cool. And I just kind of never let go of that thing.

00:09:40:20 - 00:10:04:01
Speaker 3
And when I went to EMC and these big companies, I always carry that little nugget with me because to me, I found the magic by just dumb luck stumbling across this guy. And he took the career and the trade of sales and he made it religion to me and I got goofy with it, you know? I mean, people used to say, you know, what do you do?

00:10:04:01 - 00:10:27:06
Speaker 3
And I said, well, I was Catholic until I was 22 and now I'm a sales guy. This is religion. And, you know, and I and I was kidding. But the point is, it's like you've got to be all in. If you're not all in, it isn't religion. And when you're all in, you got to have faith. And if you have faith and you just stick to the process and you do the right thing, good things are going to happen to you.

00:10:27:15 - 00:10:53:18
Speaker 3
Everything that guy told me played out at some point down the road. And and a quick little tidbit on this because it's true. So I broke up with him one day. He knew my phone calls started slowing down. He knew there was something missing in everything that I was doing. And he looked at me, we had this office in Burlington and it was an old liposuction doctor's office, so it was all mirrors.

00:10:53:22 - 00:11:10:14
Speaker 3
So even though there was like four people, it looked like there was 12 people. And but he could like look in the mirror. He could see everybody at all times. And he knew I wasn't doing this all day long. Hey, Jim, let's take a ride for lunch. You know, get on the mall and grab some need. I said, All right.

00:11:11:13 - 00:11:34:04
Speaker 3
And we get in the car. We weren't even down the hill to the mall. He's like, Jimmy, what's up? What do you mean? He's like, Jimmy, just be honest with me. He's like, Something's bothering you. You're not the same kid. I just I want to help you. I want to know. I need to know. So finally, I kind of I let it out and I said, like, and I'm one of these technology companies wants to hire me.

00:11:34:04 - 00:11:53:11
Speaker 3
And again, it goes back to getting specialized in technology and all the things that I told you about a couple of months ago. He's like, I get it, Jimmy. He's like, you know, you want to go do something different. You've had some success here. He's like, I don't want to lose you. But he's like, I love the fact that we're having this discussion.

00:11:53:11 - 00:12:09:16
Speaker 3
I said, Well, why do you love it? I'm leaving you. And he's like, Because you taught me something. You taught me that I should be going out and hiring the next 15, 22 year old kids, just like you don't want to go make something of themselves that are ambitious, that are going to take my coaching, blah, blah, blah.

00:12:10:01 - 00:12:25:14
Speaker 3
He's like, You know what I'm going to do, Jim? He's like, I'm going to go build the country's largest high tech sales, only recruiting outfit. And I was like, That's awesome. Good for you, you know? And I just couldn't wait to get out of there because it was so uncomfortable. I felt like I was breaking up with my dad.

00:12:25:14 - 00:12:53:23
Speaker 3
I was like, Oh, I felt awful. Three years later, I'm living down in Florida. I got my first management job. I'm down in Miami. I get on a Delta shuttle, I go back to the airplane. They used to have magazines. You grab a stack of magazines for the flight. The first one, Sports Illustrated. I go to the next next magazine, front page this this guy's eyes are looking at me and I'm like, oh, my God.

00:12:53:23 - 00:13:19:14
Speaker 3
I'm like, who is? And I'm looking and I'm like, Holy crap, everything that guy told me he did. So I read this article. This is like in I don't know, this is like in the, in the late nineties, this magazine. And it was all about how tiny little a diversified communications built the country's largest high tech army sales training recruiting they moved the office to BuzzFeed.

00:13:19:14 - 00:13:38:14
Speaker 3
Everybody had a mahogany desk. And I'm like, oh, my God. Like, he actually did it. I thought he was just, you know, making me feel good. So I called him up, hadn't talked to the guy in a couple of years, you know. And so when I look back at my career, I feel like I got so lucky, just dumb luck.

00:13:38:14 - 00:14:07:14
Speaker 3
I respond to an ad in the globe. I just I'm looking for somebody to kind of show me the way. And there he is. And it's the end to this day. I he's the best sales guy I ever met, probably because I met him in such a formative time of my career that, you know, the 8020 rule, like, I mean, every day I was filling my bucket with, you know, slogans and ideas and I was like, oh, my God.

00:14:07:14 - 00:14:24:19
Speaker 3
And so, you know, that's where it came from. And and I haven't let go of that. And, you know, and I won't because like that dumb face is what's given me the confidence, even when I didn't have confidence, you know? So you got to believe.

00:14:26:01 - 00:14:48:12
Speaker 2
Those, those early leaders are so important. Like, it's unbelievable. Like, it's a lot like my story with Chef finding me in a men's league locker up and talked. I got to talk coming out of going to law school same same idea I it's it's so funny Jimmy. Like my days now are spent talking to young people that are getting their first sales job.

00:14:48:12 - 00:15:12:07
Speaker 2
That's what I do pretty much all day. And, you know, we always dig into like, you know, most of our candidates will get multiple offers because we don't do, like, exclusive or anything. And we're talking a lot of the conversation is, you know, well, this has this base salary, this is this O.T., this is the commission percentage. You know, this is the commute, right?

00:15:12:13 - 00:15:30:12
Speaker 2
These are the benefits. All these things that I'm like, you know, this this product being sold into this market and this is what you know, and I always tell them, I'm like, listen, there's stuff that's more important than that. And a lot of it is about people and who you're going to be surrounded by. Can you just comment on that?

00:15:30:12 - 00:15:44:19
Speaker 2
Because I feel like you I think me and you have talked about this before, like, yeah, that first job. What are you looking for? Like, what is what are the kids that are listening to this right now? What are the things that should be most important to them?

00:15:44:19 - 00:16:17:03
Speaker 3
It's a great question. I mean, look, the world has changed so much in the last five years, never mind ten years, 20 years and whatnot. But what hasn't changed is, you know, we all have our kind of functional trade when we go into business, right? For for you and I and and many others, it's sales. But when you're getting going and it is very similar to sports, you're only as good as the people that you train with, right?

00:16:17:03 - 00:16:47:18
Speaker 3
You're only as good as the people that you spend time with that you watch, that you study. Because inevitably those people are going to have a huge impact on you, whether you believe it or not or think about it that way or not. But osmosis happens regardless. And so if you're around a bunch of really strong, high intellect, hardworking people, and you're not like that, you probably will be in a certain period of time.

00:16:48:05 - 00:17:25:01
Speaker 3
And so I think, you know, people get caught up in there's so many companies out there these days to get to get a job. And yeah, people get caught up in, you know, the brand. They get caught up in the money and that stuff's all important. But the money is so secondary to getting the foundation built. And the foundation is, you know, the basic skills and understanding of what is sales and what are the behaviors and things that I need to start to learn in order to effectively be good at something like that and all that comes from not just the training.

00:17:25:01 - 00:17:58:07
Speaker 3
Every company touts training and enablement, but the reality is trainings are put together there and people go through them and then people move on to the next thing you know, enablement, a lot of times enablement, people don't always come from a sales background. So it's difficult to get those foundational elements from somebody who's maybe done a lot of things but hasn't necessarily come up through the ranks like you have in sales.

00:17:59:22 - 00:18:19:06
Speaker 3
And so it's all, you know, like Steve Jobs says, it's impossible to predict the future by looking out the windshield. But when you look in the rearview mirror, you can always connect the dots. And now when you look back and then certainly when I look back, I'm like, thank God I went to that. I responded to that ad.

00:18:19:06 - 00:18:42:21
Speaker 3
Thank God I met that guy. Because if I hadn't, I don't know what I would have had a career in sales. Would I have change and done something different? Like maybe, you know, you just don't know. But what it teaches me is it really is about finding people that you want to be like. It's just like know, you listen to musicians talk about, you know, how they became successful at playing the guitar.

00:18:43:06 - 00:19:18:23
Speaker 3
You got to emulate your heroes. You've got you got to be around people that you have something in common with. Hopefully, but also that have a skill set that you just know you want to be more like. And from that point on, it becomes a function of ambition, you know, discipline to hold yourself accountable. I was telling Sully when we were kind of talking about preparing for this episode here today, this guy, Tony, Nutella, he came to work every day with just like one of these, like, plastic grocery bags.

00:19:18:23 - 00:19:42:04
Speaker 3
And it was a banana. Two things, a yogurt and two power bars. He brought it to work every day and I probably wasn't there for weeks. I remember coming home. I was still living with my mom and dad, and I was like, Hey, Mom, can you go get me some yogurt, some bananas, right? And literally, like, I was buying in to everything that guy did.

00:19:42:04 - 00:20:02:08
Speaker 3
But because I did that, like I felt my own confidence growing. I felt like not only am I listening to this guy and I'm getting confident and doing my job, but like I'm starting to really feel it. And as dumb as that is, you have to you have to get there. You have to come to peace with the faith of it all.

00:20:02:16 - 00:20:19:17
Speaker 3
And and when you do man it and you do and you do the things that you're taught over time, good things happen, but you have to be bought into it. And that's what he said to me. You get to buy into this, you got to believe and there's going to be days when you're going to be frustrated. Put him aside.

00:20:19:17 - 00:20:45:08
Speaker 3
There'll be another day. You got to buy in 100%. And when you do that, every success that comes your way, you're accountable for it. You did it. But then again, every failure that comes along, you did that too. But once you get comfortable with that, it's good. You're good. And so a lot of it is the psychology of it is convincing yourself that you're in.

00:20:45:22 - 00:21:09:16
Speaker 3
But but the only way you're going to get good is by, you know, watching people around you and learning from people. So long winded answer to your question. The reality is you want to make sure that the people that are going to be spending time with you in the early stages of your development are people that have a good skill set.

00:21:09:16 - 00:21:42:22
Speaker 3
You understand their background, you know why they're successful and there's enough there that that's the type of person you feel like you want to become. And I mean somebody that is it. I would say look at more opportunities because at the end of the day, the only thing that matters in your first call it 18 to 24 months of your career in sales, especially tax sales, is all the fundamental things that you learn the network of people that you surround yourself with, and that's really it.

00:21:43:05 - 00:21:49:20
Speaker 3
So if you're not enthused about it, I think twice about jumping in. So that makes sense.

00:21:50:12 - 00:22:15:02
Speaker 2
It makes so much sense having that buy in it because like you said, it's it's psychological. If the job's going to be hard, if you do it at some amazing brand that everybody knows or if you do it at some small company nobody's ever heard of, either way, it's hard if you're not part of it. If you're not bought in and surrounded by people that are teaching you, then it's going to it's not going to be fun and it has to be fun, right?

00:22:16:06 - 00:22:36:03
Speaker 2
Not every day, but overall. And actually so like we are everybody we work with, as you can imagine, Jimmy is is super hyper competitive, right? So they're like one of the things they're asking us is like, all right, I understand. I need to start as a leader, but I want to be an AP as fast as possible. Right.

00:22:36:03 - 00:22:54:20
Speaker 2
And that's that should be definitely something you look at when you look at the company is how quickly can you can you grow? But like what other advice other than like buying in being a student of the game, what other advice would you give to all these kids that we're working with that are becoming leaders for the first time that want to get to that closing real quickly.

00:22:55:23 - 00:23:19:02
Speaker 3
I think the hardest thing to do for people is to grow into their own sales skin. Right. People people are who they are and then they get a job and then Bobby, who, you know, you had who sounded like, you know, you did and you'd have a conversation. Whereas when you hear Bobby all of a sudden on the phone, Bobby starts talking like a technology salesperson.

00:23:19:02 - 00:23:44:11
Speaker 3
How are you doing today? You know? And like, that is so disingenuous and you can smell it through the phone, you know? And so I think the hardest thing to do is, is to figure out how do you bring yourself into the workplace and not feel like you have to have like a different personality when you're doing the job.

00:23:44:11 - 00:24:09:19
Speaker 3
And so many people, whether it's just through their voice or how they try to act, are different. And the reality is it all starts with trust, you know, and if you're yourself and you sound an act like a human being and you're respectful and use thoughtful and you're prepared, that stuff matters. You know, it's also good to be vulnerable.

00:24:10:04 - 00:24:49:20
Speaker 3
Like, I think being vulnerable is, is like one of the most important things to to kind of break through that barrier of trust. Sometimes people are so fearful of saying the wrong thing or making a mistake, take full accountability for their mistake. If you don't know something, don't pretend you do. But I guess it's it's that it's it's grown into your own self skin and it's getting comfortable with having range talking to people that are just like you, talking to people that are, you know, at the top of the food chain when it comes to business, CEOs, CEOs, we're all people.

00:24:49:20 - 00:25:21:00
Speaker 3
At the end of the day, we all have lives outside of the workplace. And I think what happens a lot of times is in this day and age, beady eyes are as deep as they get into a company. They were in the product, they learn the story, they learn the tools. And there's so many tools and technology and they get engulfed in all this stuff and although you learn that all it is important, what's really important is, is that you find your voice.

00:25:21:00 - 00:25:45:03
Speaker 3
And once you have that and you're comfortable just having discussions with people, I think you start to kind of pull away. It really is about focusing in on problems and the things that the people you're selling to are struggling with. Like don't be a student of the game, meaning your company in your space, be a student of the prospect.

00:25:45:12 - 00:26:08:00
Speaker 3
Who is this person? Where did they go to school? How long have they been doing it? What's their lineage? Is there anything that I can connect with based on? I mean, what an advantage LinkedIn was. Holy smokes, I sold for 20 years and didn't have a LinkedIn. You know what I mean? Like you didn't have that advantage. And it's amazing how many people don't use it to its fullest extent.

00:26:08:12 - 00:26:39:07
Speaker 3
So, you know, be a student of their world. Your job is to professionally help them solve the problem, not to talk about in your product unless it's a complete commodity sell. They have a budget and yours is purple and theirs is orange. At that point it becomes super transactional. But if you want to become a really good salesperson, I would say go sell something that's hard to sell because it's only going to get easier as you go along.

00:26:40:14 - 00:27:02:11
Speaker 2
Right? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I couldn't if we always talk about like the difference between selling unbudgeted software versus a better mousetrap that is so different, it's a different skill. If you and if you can sell something that someone doesn't need, doesn't know they need, then you can go sell anything.

00:27:03:03 - 00:27:29:13
Speaker 3
At 100% and and, you know, it's amazing how many times I've hired people that were at the top of their game when it came to selling The Mousetrap. Crossing that bridge into like a category creator is really hard because it's different. You're an evangelist, you have to set the tone. You have to get them interested in something they've never heard about.

00:27:30:00 - 00:27:40:03
Speaker 3
That is not easy. But if you can get there sooner in your career, then later what do you want to do and where do you want to do it? That's really what it comes down to.

00:27:40:16 - 00:28:09:02
Speaker 2
You're you're writing your ticket. If you start there 100%. I've been so excited to ask you this question because out of everybody in my network, you've recruited, hired and interviewed more young sales professional than anybody else I know. And a lot of them in their early twenties, in the middle of the transition, transition, like you, you've obviously interviewed a lot of people from going from one sales rep to another like you just talked about.

00:28:09:08 - 00:28:28:21
Speaker 2
But you've interviewed a lot of kids that have never sold anything before and, you know, that's most of our most of our candidates are like that. So I want to really know, Jimmy, like when you're sitting across from the from somebody looking to get into sales for the first time, what are you looking for? What are you listening for?

00:28:28:21 - 00:28:31:04
Speaker 2
What? Like what? When do you know?

00:28:31:17 - 00:28:59:01
Speaker 3
Yeah, it's a it's a great question. And I think if I really did know, you know, I would have written the book and I'd be, you know, in the Caribbean. But the bottom line is it has very little to do with how prepared they are to answer my questions. And more to do is how prepared are they to ask me questions and the quality of those questions.

00:28:59:11 - 00:29:47:13
Speaker 3
It's amazing. I've interviewed some, you know, 21 year olds that have clearly gone through my LinkedIn profile and have check things out that I don't even remember. I have in there like and I didn't figure that out until after the fact. I'm like, Oh, that's what that person was talking about. But it's the people that have just a natural curiosity and, and, and a purposeful way of trying to understand and then connect with, in this case me on some of those things, like they're trying to show me that they've prepared for it, whereas there are some people that just don't have the social sense and they think an interview is they're going to get asked

00:29:47:13 - 00:30:12:15
Speaker 3
a ton of questions and hopefully they answer them well. Well, that isn't an interview. And the interview is a conversation. It's it's a it's a two way. It's back and forth. And so I really do find a lot of I make a huge judgment call on the type of questions they ask. Was it an easy discussion or was it like question, answer, question answer.

00:30:12:22 - 00:30:42:16
Speaker 3
You know, I want somebody that's comfortable in their own skin regardless if they've got any business experience. Some people just have a natural ability to be social and to ask questions and to empathize. And some of it's even non it's nonverbal. It's just how they react. Who showed up with a pen and pad of paper. And actually when I said something to one of their questions, they took a note on it and showed me they were listening to me.

00:30:43:02 - 00:31:09:15
Speaker 3
There's nonverbal cues and there's verbiage used, but I'm looking for the person that seems to have a purpose behind why they're doing this. You know, why sales I mean, this is a hard job. Why do you think this is the road you want to get out? You know how many salespeople there are in the world. So why why are you you know, and you can kind of tell right away how much time these people have really thought through it.

00:31:09:23 - 00:31:33:23
Speaker 3
And and if you sense that they're not sure, you know, I even paint a more dreary picture because you really want the people that are has made the decision. That's why all of these colleges and universities that have launched these sales curriculum type programs, most of them you can get a minus certificate in sales and minor in sales.

00:31:34:04 - 00:32:04:17
Speaker 3
Some of them now you can major in sales. I mean, think about that. But those people are exposed to sales as a vocation in college, did an internship and found the magic and there's no looking back. Quick story. Three weeks ago I was down in Miami. This company blank that I'm joining had a company meeting down there. So while I was going through the interview process, the CEO was gracious enough to say, Hey, Jim, why don't you come on down and get a feel for us?

00:32:04:17 - 00:32:24:02
Speaker 3
The culture. Awesome. So I meet one of the stars for the first time. This guy's name is George, he's from the UK. And I said, George, tell me about yourself. Like, you know, what were you doing before blank and why did you come here? And he and I'm not going to do my English accent because I won't do it justice.

00:32:24:02 - 00:32:47:01
Speaker 3
But he said, Yeah, I was a student and graduated from Oxford University and I was a chemistry major. And I'm like, What? And I'm like, Well, why did you choose sales? He's like, Because I've always been in sales. If you really think about it. He's like, Initially, it took some work to get my parents okay with the idea that I'd be doing this.

00:32:47:07 - 00:33:19:17
Speaker 3
But when I explained to them the type of money that I think I can make based on who I am and what I enjoy, they supported me and this kid. Like out of everybody that I met, like you, just real confident, you know. And so when you see people like that, that that found the answer to them selves and made the decision themselves that is like that's that's beautiful to me because so many people do it as a default.

00:33:20:21 - 00:33:49:12
Speaker 3
I didn't get that marketing job for the third time. Maybe I'll try sales instead. Or my Uncle Charlie's in sales, he says. I should do this. Yeah, great. But like, you need to do some more thinking, you know? So it's, it's that type of person. In an interview that always catches me and and and I and you just kind of know now you don't know everything but the people that that that jump out as they've prepared.

00:33:49:12 - 00:34:09:06
Speaker 3
They've done their homework, they've dabbled in it. They've done research and talk to people. And they can tell you a story about why sales. I love that versus just answering questions because you don't get to know people in that way. And so, you know, to me, those are the diamonds in the rough.

00:34:10:08 - 00:34:27:23
Speaker 2
We had a kid, Jimmy, you're going to love this story. He was a he's a Cushing kid. He played baseball and then he played like high level D1 college baseball and professionally. And I met him through shift group and we got him into a bunch of companies in Boston. And I get a call one day from the head of h.r.

00:34:28:10 - 00:34:51:00
Speaker 2
And she's like, hey, like, you need to talk to this kid. You know, he's doing great in the interview process, but he, he was waiting outside of their office for salespeople to come out introducing himself and asking if he could ask them some questions because he's going through the interview process. And he was like, you know, with Polaroid, we can't be blah, blah, blah.

00:34:51:12 - 00:35:04:05
Speaker 2
So I said, I texted the VP of Sales who I know, and I told him the story and I'm like, Hey, she wants to get him out of the interview process. He's like, No, we need to make an offer to this kid. Now you're talking about.

00:35:04:14 - 00:35:05:11
Speaker 3
Exactly.

00:35:05:21 - 00:35:11:14
Speaker 2
He ended up getting never, never been in tech sales. He ended up getting an account executive job, first job.

00:35:12:07 - 00:35:34:16
Speaker 3
See that? I mean, that's the difference in that those people are hard to find. You know, they are just hard to find. But to me, you've got to get somebody that has some level of conviction in why they want to do this. They have a basic understanding in terms of what's going to be required, and they've embraced that.

00:35:34:16 - 00:35:59:06
Speaker 3
And they cannot just answer a question, but they can talk about it and tell you stories about things that have led them to that place. It's a huge decision. I used to say this to people all the time, like, you know, you get out of college, life begins. And from the age of 22 to 30, those first eight years, I used to call them the first eight miles of the career marathon.

00:35:59:17 - 00:36:29:20
Speaker 3
Those eight miles are everything. It's the people you surround yourself with, the people you meet, the skills you develop. You know, it's it's the books you read, all that stuff. Because the idea is that if you can get the foundation built and get the experience going and you can start to feel the progression happening by the time you turn 30, you everybody should want to be a position where if they want to be in management, go for it.

00:36:30:00 - 00:36:51:06
Speaker 3
Because they've done it. They've done enough to put themselves in a position to do that. Well, if they want to continue and be an individual contributor and be a global account, whatever it is, but earning the right to to kind of do what you want to do and make what you want to make is really about the people who they want.

00:36:51:07 - 00:37:21:20
Speaker 3
Understand that there's a level of discipline and and work that has to be put in before you can ever start taking, you know, withdrawals out of it. But but that's that's hard, right. And not everybody thinks like that. And some people are wildly successful and never go through, you know, what I'm just describing right now? But at the end of the day, focus on your first year and surround yourself with people that are going to make a difference.

00:37:21:20 - 00:37:44:15
Speaker 3
But, you know, finding those people is an easy idea that you want to work for and with. And I think sometimes people want a job that they don't do enough to interview the people that are going to be working for. Like you owe that to yourself. If you've got questions, ask those questions right?

00:37:44:15 - 00:38:11:15
Speaker 2
Yes. You just hit a good note because we like we got really close at a pretty like important point in my career where I had I had gotten to that conviction of like, I want to lead people like I had had to your point, I had had success as an individual contributor for a while. And I was at the point where it's like, I want to be put myself in a position where I can be a leader.

00:38:12:20 - 00:38:33:18
Speaker 2
I'm curious to know, like whether it was, you know, when you met me or any time, you know, because we did a lot of promoting about when we were really buzzing like how does it how does it change when you're looking to hire a leader or move an individual contributor to a leadership role? What are the things that you're looking for in those types of people?

00:38:35:07 - 00:39:16:14
Speaker 3
Well, it's a little easier if you're promoting people from within and you've had the ability to watch them and see them grow and evolve right before your eyes, you know, as compared to other people internally as well. That also might be going to that same position. You've got a huge advantage by being close enough to those people that, you know, I think the hardest thing is when you go outside the company, you know, and you don't know the person and you really do have to get deep and understand philosophically how they think, how they manage their business, how they prioritize, where they spend their time.

00:39:16:21 - 00:39:43:15
Speaker 3
It's all about time. You know, some people are really strong operationally, but they're not great recruiters. Some people are great recruiters, but they're not strong operationally. Right. So you have to find the person that based on everything you know about the job, is going to be the best candidate based on what you know. And you know, I think that you have to spend the time in the interview process getting to know people.

00:39:44:17 - 00:40:20:07
Speaker 3
You know, it's that old trick, you know, take them out for a beer and see what they're like outside of work. Because you do learn a lot when you do that, right. Some good, some not so good, some time. And but, you know, I would say, you know, if you're a young person and you're applying for an SDR role and you've met the SDR manager and maybe you even get the offer during the interview process, ask to speak with the sales manager, not the person who's running sales development, but sales leadership type people.

00:40:20:17 - 00:40:57:02
Speaker 3
You because first of all, not many people are going to do that. Maybe nobody's going to do that. But I learned early on that it's all about different creation, finding those little opportunities to do something that pretty much nobody else is going to do. And, you know, sometimes it takes a little more courage because you're uncomfortable, but it's like you want to be able to do things to separate and differentiate yourself because you're competing with bunch of people sometimes if you're coming out of college where nobody's got experience.

00:40:57:02 - 00:41:34:04
Speaker 3
So, you know, some people might have gone through and got a minor in sales, okay, there's a leg up there, but you're looking for all those little opportunities to differentiate yourself against others. And sometimes people do nothing. And other times, like you just told that story about the person, you know, who stood outside the office, it's it's it's being perpetual, paranoid in a healthy way, you know, it's leaving nothing to chance and looking to make a good impression on as many people as you possibly can so that you've touched more people.

00:41:34:04 - 00:42:03:18
Speaker 3
And that's no different than a sales campaign, right? That's exactly what it is. Except you're not being graded on anything to do with your career at that point. You're being graded on communication, what your ambitions are, how well you, you know, handling objections through the interview process. It's a process. But the people that are prepared for it sometimes shine as compared to everyone else who just goes through the process.

00:42:04:09 - 00:42:10:23
Speaker 3
And it's dare to be different, but be professional, you know, be professional.

00:42:10:23 - 00:42:12:15
Speaker 2
And, you know, I was going to be a good leader.

00:42:13:22 - 00:42:38:19
Speaker 3
Well, I tell you right now how I know. I remember sitting in Franklin at EMC and on the I think we were on the third floor. They I can't remember what floor it was, but there was a few hundred people on that floor where I where I sat. And I remember there was a day where I was like, who the hell is this guy that I see popping through here like two or three days a week?

00:42:38:19 - 00:43:08:02
Speaker 3
Like, who's letting them in the building, first of all? And and why is he talking all these people? Like, who is this guy and somebody like R.J. Butler. And who's J.R. Butler? And they're like, Oh, he works at ISI. He's one of the partners. And I was like, Okay, and I think I met you, but we worked with a lot of partners at EMC, a lot of local partners, and what a gold mine walk in a building, make a few friends and you've got access to a few hundred salespeople.

00:43:08:10 - 00:43:42:06
Speaker 3
They can represent product. And you know, how many people did that maybe to you being one of them. So it's that's exactly what mean. It's you're doing the little things, not because you you're trying to make an impression. That's maybe part of it, but it's because you're trying to jockey and figure out how you get ISI best position so that you're the recipient of all the goodness that could come out of that place and other people knew it was there and never even bothered to come by it.

00:43:42:06 - 00:43:56:15
Speaker 3
Come in. Right. So but in order to get to that level, like you've got to be, you've got to have a purpose, you've got to know why you're doing it. And every opportunity to be different, you got to do it. And that's how I knew.

00:43:57:12 - 00:44:07:17
Speaker 2
Yeah, I always joke around and people are like, How did you get off to a quick start? And I was like, I just paid the electricity bill like coals for like two years.

00:44:07:17 - 00:44:09:00
Speaker 3
And that's the truth.

00:44:10:07 - 00:44:40:04
Speaker 2
Out of the truth over that. We, my, my, one of my favorite parts about the job. Yeah, I get after kids get settled into their role they're kind of like over that first like two weeks of like, you know, drinking from a firehose. They reach out and they're like, J.R., I want to know, like, what skill I should be focused on developing the most to really, like, set myself apart as a leader and be ready for when I'm when I'm ready for a promotion.

00:44:40:04 - 00:45:01:03
Speaker 2
And obviously, we talk about all the good things about, you know, high activity, building a great relationship with your AC. But then I get into like the sales skills side. I'm a big believer in, you know, you got to get good at account research and then persona research. You got to get start getting good at qualification and you have to be good at like prospecting, right.

00:45:01:10 - 00:45:12:08
Speaker 2
What from your perspective, what area of development is like the most overlooked by salespeople early on that could set them apart in those first 12 to 18 months?

00:45:13:23 - 00:45:52:22
Speaker 3
That's a great question. I mean, there's so much to learn, you know, in those first 18 to 24 months and you just kind of describe, you know, the difference between, you know, some of the core sales skills versus all the other stuff that you have to learn and be responsible for. But I was talking to Sally about this as well at one point, which is if you think about this generation and even my own two kids that are now in college, they grew up, you know, they had they had, you know, iPhones when they were five years old.

00:45:52:22 - 00:46:15:20
Speaker 3
Six years old. Right. I mean, this generation is kind of born into technology. And, you know, you think about as they go through junior high and high school right there, I is through a persona on an application in a lot of ways, you know, it's not about going out and playing street hockey. You going to the park and playing football.

00:46:16:01 - 00:46:45:13
Speaker 3
It's like social isn't necessarily always social, social media. And so what you see a lot of the times is people kind of hide behind the technology, people sending out emails, right? I mean, this generation, what I've seen in terms of different from, say, 15 years ago is everybody sends emails and you can even see all these articles online is called Calling Dead is cold, calling dead.

00:46:45:18 - 00:47:12:01
Speaker 3
Are you kidding me? Cold calling has never been more alive because so few people do it. So if I'm a sales guy, I go back to the future, right? This is all about being differentiated. There's nothing better than getting a warm voice to pick up the phone for you to be prepared and to get a meeting because people don't pay attention to their emails.

00:47:12:01 - 00:47:39:15
Speaker 3
I mean, if they have time or it's compelling or there's a big aha, okay. But you know, people think their job is I sent my hundreds of email. Okay, check. I'm done there today. No. Right. Your job is to engage with people and get them to agree to a meeting however you want to do that. But in the spirit of differentiation, how about the United States Postal Service?

00:47:39:15 - 00:48:03:16
Speaker 3
I mean, you know, it's funny, you talk to people sometimes in sales and you say, oh, this looks like this person might be the decision maker. We spoke to that person and I can't get a hold of them. Okay, well, what have we done? I sent the guy 50 emails. I've left voice. Not that okay to me. If there's a will, there's a way, right?

00:48:03:23 - 00:48:24:22
Speaker 3
I had a kid working for me. This is back in and when I work for this company, copy service became part of WorldCom is back in the late nineties and he was a young kid and we're having this this conversation he was calling on he was he was a good rep, but he wanted a big account. So I gave him one big account in Boston.

00:48:24:23 - 00:48:49:17
Speaker 3
It was Reebok. And I still remember to this day the CEO's name at the time was Peter Burrows. And, you know, four reps in the office had Reebok. Nobody could get into the account. So this guy does the same thing, sending emails, voicemail, nothing's happened. And Peter Bars is not interested in what we have to say. But the kid had no gumption and he came in amusing.

00:48:49:17 - 00:49:12:04
Speaker 3
Look, I'm getting into this account. I'm like, I love it. So what are we going to do? So he goes home over the weekend, he goes to like Marshalls, and he buys this pair of like sized 12 flat Reebok white sneakers. I mean, like ugly. They look like white clown shoes. And on one of them, he like a globe.

00:49:12:11 - 00:49:36:19
Speaker 3
And he writes Peter Burrows, CIO, and the other one, he draws like our logo and writes, Yeah, I won't say his name. And anyway, he he like spent 2 hours painting these Reebok sneakers. I'm like, Dude, what are you going to do with those things? He's like, I'm going to get out of Reebok. I'm going to go walk in a building, I'm going to the front desk and I ask to speak to Peter Burroughs.

00:49:38:06 - 00:50:00:05
Speaker 3
I'm thinking, Wait a minute, should I actually let him do this? And then finally I was like, Be professional, right? But, but I love it, so go for it. I was in college and I'm like, go for walks. And the woman at the big right in the new lobby sitting there. Can I help you? Yeah, I don't have a meeting, but I'd like to see Peter Burroughs or his ad men.

00:50:00:23 - 00:50:21:21
Speaker 3
I'm sorry. I can't let you in the building. Like, what's this? What's this about? And he's got this box, and he opens it up and he pulls out the sneakers. He said, I'm in sales. This is what I do, blah, blah, blah. And I worked really hard to try to get a foot in the door here. And I'm hoping that maybe you could help me out and at least have his abdomen come down so I could give these to her because it would mean a lot to me.

00:50:22:06 - 00:51:00:20
Speaker 3
Sure enough, the woman comes down the stairs in this big lobby and they're all sitting there laughing like, What the heck is this? Sure enough, we got a meeting at Reebok, right? And so the point is, it's like there are ways to get access to people all within the confines of being professional. But and you don't want to get goofy all the time, but hey, I was not going to hold somebody back from like getting out there on the skinny branches because 95% of the world's sales population is hugging the tree trunk, the ones adventure off where it starts to crackle are the people that are going to catch the money when it starts to

00:51:00:20 - 00:51:25:23
Speaker 3
fall, you know? And that was kind of what I was trying to get this guy to think like. And he did. And so it comes down to like, don't hide behind the technology, get good at the social aspect of sales, get good at asking questions and emphasizing those skills. The reason why people don't do the phone is because this generation doesn't grow up with the phone as much.

00:51:26:09 - 00:51:49:02
Speaker 3
You know, my phone rings at home, nobody picks it up sometimes I don't. But but but by the time I was eight years old, I'd like to think I could pick up the telephone and talk to people. I, you know, and in this day and age, it's just different. So if you're going to be successful in sales, you've got to learn how to communicate verbally and you've got to have credibility.

00:51:49:06 - 00:51:53:06
Speaker 3
And so if you don't start now, it's only going to get harder.

00:51:54:20 - 00:52:04:04
Speaker 2
Unreal. I couldn't agree more. There's so much emphasis on the tech side and sometimes you just got to smile and dial and talk to people.

00:52:04:12 - 00:52:33:21
Speaker 3
Yeah, it's all. It's it, you know, like we you learn all the lessons, then it becomes a question of who wants it bad enough, right? The golden hours of selling, right? I mean, it's true, though, if you call an executive somewhere between seven and 8 a.m., there's a good chance they're going to pick up. And with all the technology like Zoom info and all this stuff that's available these days, you have their mobile information.

00:52:34:06 - 00:52:52:22
Speaker 3
The reason why people don't do it is they don't have the confidence. They're not sure, Oh, I don't want to. I don't want to, you know, pissed this guy off. Well, the only way you're going to piss him off is if you're not prepared and you know how to take advantage of the moment. Right? So if that's the case, let's figure out how to how to practice and get better at it.

00:52:53:05 - 00:53:04:22
Speaker 3
But at the end of the day, it's out there. It's just a question of going and doing it and doing it in the times where everyone else isn't doing it. And that's it.

00:53:05:16 - 00:53:32:07
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I don't want to keep you too long, Jim, but I have a couple more questions that I love. Awesome. You put in a shift at EMC, one, in my opinion, one of the most legendary tech companies, especially being from Massachusetts and Metro West area. Right. They capped my friends parents work there. I'm very curious because we've never talked about it.

00:53:32:07 - 00:53:40:12
Speaker 2
Like what what finally prompted you to kind of pick your head up and look around and specifically go to like an early stage startup?

00:53:41:03 - 00:54:12:14
Speaker 3
Great question. I mean, look, I've always been big on mentors you know, I mentioned that guy Tony Natale. He was he was really my first mentor. But along the way, everywhere I've gone, I always try to identify a person that I know I can learn from and that I just, you know, I'm fascinated with so is in their success in business, they are funny, charismatic, whatever those things are.

00:54:14:03 - 00:54:40:10
Speaker 3
But you know, and that was true at EMC and one of my mentors was my boss was and so being and and I, you know, Ed gave me a chance to come work with him. And at the time that Ed and I met, there was no inside sales at EMC. It was an idea that Billy Scannell had, and he said, I'm going to bring this guy Ed Philippine, back from Chicago to build it.

00:54:41:00 - 00:55:06:16
Speaker 3
And I had met Ed. It was just after 911. The economy was it was awful. EMC went from like $103 a share down to three. You know, the world was coming to an end for all intents and purposes. And at the time I the ninth district manager out of nine in the Newton office. So it was a matter of time before, you know, matter of hours before nine districts was going to get down to three.

00:55:06:19 - 00:55:31:13
Speaker 3
So that was part of the motivation of knowing that, you know, it's an very unstable economy globally. And like, I want to be in the best position possible. And I just again, as luck would have it, I met Ed and and he gave me an opportunity to work with him. And Ed Philippine one day resigned from EMC and he went to a startup.

00:55:32:18 - 00:55:52:06
Speaker 3
And I knew Ed well, you know, I looked up to him. He was my boss, but and I consider him a friend to this day. But I never crossed the line. He was my boss and my job was to carry out the mission. And when Ed laughed, I was like, Wow, that's a bummer. Because, I mean, he was always on his game.

00:55:52:06 - 00:56:18:00
Speaker 3
He I learned so much from just being around him. And and when he left and I talked to him on the phone, he was so invigorated, like he sounded like an ED that I had never spoke to in the past because, you know, you go to a small company, you got a lot of responsibility and you're trying to build something and it's not easy, but like he was in his element.

00:56:18:00 - 00:56:42:10
Speaker 3
And so I kind of got the bug a little bit just by talking to Ed and and that just kind of progressed. And I remember I woke up one day, I was living in Lynnfield and I was shaving one morning and I was just thinking about like work and stuff. And I said to myself, Man, I've been at this inside sales thing at EMC now for about eight years, been the best eight years of my career.

00:56:42:10 - 00:57:03:15
Speaker 3
Loved it. I mean, awesome people, huge success. Everything about it was good. How am I ever going to replicate this? And I got a cold call from Bain Capital. I'll never forget it. On my cell phone, it said Bain Capital. I'm like Bain Capital. I almost didn't pick it up and I don't know why I did to this day, but I did.

00:57:03:19 - 00:57:21:17
Speaker 3
And it was Veronica Curran and she said, Hey, we have your name on a short list. And, you know, a gentleman by the name of Ben, I would like to meet with you. And I'm like, I'm sorry. I don't know who Ben Knight is. And she kind of laughed. She's like, Well, just so you know, Ben's one of the co managing directors of Bain Capital Ventures.

00:57:21:17 - 00:57:47:03
Speaker 3
I'm like, Oh, okay, let's try one stock to me. But Gray and I went in 40 minutes later, I pulled out of the Pru garage and I basically just accepted an offer to go to terminate me. I'm terrible at the time and literally in 40 minutes Ben had that much an impression on me that like, I needed to be connected to that guy, and I guess that might be his name.

00:57:47:03 - 00:58:15:10
Speaker 3
Throughout this discussion that we're having is the things that have moved me around in my career for the most part have been opportunities to follow my next mentor or my next leader or somebody. That just strikes me in a way where it's like, wow. And when. Ben kind of I mean, again, 40 minutes, I wasn't really I had no I did zero interviews with any startups up to that point.

00:58:15:17 - 00:58:37:09
Speaker 3
I didn't go out and I didn't, you know, do as much of it as I would have wanted to. In hindsight. But man, I picked a winner. But it was a winner because Ben, I was involved with it. Right. And so that's the thing. When I was at EMC, you know, after Ed left, my new mentor became Mark Surman for a little while.

00:58:37:17 - 00:58:54:11
Speaker 3
Right. Because I knew Mark for a long time and he was successful. And so it's always just trying to find somebody that can make you a little bit better than you are at work. And I just knew in my gut that eight years of building out inside sales intimacy was fine, but I don't want to be buried here.

00:58:54:11 - 00:59:14:08
Speaker 3
So I got to take the tour on the road and do something different. And it just so happened that Karl came in and I, you know, took a massive leap of faith. And I told my wife, listen, if this doesn't work out, then I can go back to a big company and, you know, continue on with it. But I really wanted to try something different.

00:59:14:22 - 00:59:21:12
Speaker 3
And thank God I did because that that cold call changed my life.

00:59:21:12 - 00:59:29:12
Speaker 2
It changed a lot of people's lives, including mine. That's like my my favorite cold car ever officially.

00:59:29:23 - 00:59:53:17
Speaker 3
I remember when when when your name came up through Corey at Bain and Ben's like, you know, this guy? And I looked at their resume. I'm like, I know Jacob Butler. Absolutely. And then we had the meeting in Ben's office, you know, and it's you go in there and it's like talk about the wow factor. But yeah, man, that's that's how it works.

00:59:53:17 - 01:00:15:18
Speaker 3
You know, once you get comfortable with a network, the network is so key, you know, you're only as good as the people that you can tap into at the end of the day. And nobody's good enough to do anything on their own, certainly not lead a sales organization. So I think there's the secret sauce is hire a lot of people that are better than you are and you'll figure it out.

01:00:15:18 - 01:00:41:22
Speaker 2
Yep, yep. So, so. So you're back in the t box again at Blink, buddy. You run. You've been you're like, I'm sure your dance card's been full. You've had a ton of opportunities you've looked at. We've been talking a lot like what made you tick blink and like what's what's like talking to me a little bit about like where your head's at in terms of thinking and planning about this new opportunity.

01:00:42:06 - 01:01:12:11
Speaker 3
Yeah. So listen, it's been a phenomenal four months and in certain ways, because it's the first time in my entire career where I've like gotten off the crazy train for, you know, more than two weeks or whatever and really taken time to just kind of like take a step back, think about things, kind of evaluate what I'm doing, what I've done, what I, what I want to do, all this stuff.

01:01:12:20 - 01:01:40:02
Speaker 3
It's really important. And, and I had the opportunity to take some time and I did. And I talked to a bunch of companies. And, you know, look, there's a lot of good tech companies out there, you know, but what I what I committed to myself this time was like, I'm going to come up with the criteria and I am sticking to the criteria, you know, and the criteria were first and foremost, it starts and ends with people.

01:01:40:07 - 01:02:10:01
Speaker 3
Meaning I want to work with a very spirited, intelligent, collaborative, authentic group of people. Right? No egos. I just want to work with a bunch of people that are all aligned and join in the mission of making something very special. And and that's hard, but, but it starts good people. So that was number one. Number two was what is this company do?

01:02:10:02 - 01:02:34:01
Speaker 3
What problems is this company solving? Why are they uniquely positioned to solve any of those problems? How big is the addressable market? And then culturally the I said, you know, and I tried to keep it simple and those are kind of the four leading things. What I met when I was introduced into blank through one of my real good friends, Jeff Saint Laurent.

01:02:34:01 - 01:03:06:15
Speaker 3
You know, I wasn't sure what to expect. They were both you know, it's a London based company. They've done pretty much all of their business up to this point, with the exception of a few key customers in the U.S., most of it's been international and it's mainly been in Europe and specifically the UK. But when I had the opportunity to meet this this company, I knew right away from a people perspective, from a culture perspective like this, this this was a special place.

01:03:08:04 - 01:03:48:00
Speaker 3
What I love about it, though, is it's a mission driven company. Half of the world's top workforce is what Blake refers to as frontline workers. So you think about nurses going into homes and home health care is massive, you know, on the rise type thing and will continue to be for for years to come. When you think about people that work in the transportation industry, food and beverage industry, anywhere where you've got people that are wearing the white collared shirt sitting at their offices, desk, doing whatever tasks they do every day, there are people out and about making the world go round.

01:03:48:12 - 01:04:24:08
Speaker 3
Those people have not grown up with the same type of tech. Tech knowledge, experience as people that have grown up like we have with. I got a laptop, I got a tablet, I got a phone. You mean you're connected, but you get some of the most important people in the workforce that have been very unconnected, especially through digital transformation, as one of the CEOs of their customers put it, this truly represents the last mile of digital transformation, because now you're connecting to a fraction of the population that otherwise has been ignored in terms of the richness in technology and the ability to communicate.

01:04:25:03 - 01:05:03:19
Speaker 3
So Blake's created basically it's a mobile app. I mean, you can use it on anything but but it's really, you know, used and on phones. And so you've got people now that just are single sign on can get access to all of their, you know, work applications, their operational applications, but also the non operational application for one day you know, if there's profit sharing, if there's, you know, if you're, if you drive one of the trains on the MTA, you get your schedule and you want to swap a shift because your son's got a baseball game or you want to log into Palazzi.

01:05:04:01 - 01:05:30:06
Speaker 3
Everything's a different app with a different sign in. And those people just that's not how they've been brought up. Blake created the most simplistic and secure way to connect all those people into an app that's actually super engaging, almost like an Instagram feel to it, but it's all purpose built content for that company. So now executives can communicate with their front lines.

01:05:30:06 - 01:05:54:20
Speaker 3
Front lines can communicate with, you know, management and executives of their company. And it's creating a cultural shift in a lot of companies where they used to be a huge divide, where you've got corporate people and others. Now it's all one big thing. And when these people get access to it for the first time, good luck getting it out of their hands because now they feel connected.

01:05:55:09 - 01:06:27:20
Speaker 3
And it's the same problem that every other company is trying to solve, which is to retention, is really hurting a lot of companies in the new world. Right. Productivity, just overall employee productivity. How do you measure that? How do you know? And so whether it's ambulance drivers, architects, I mean, all these people that we have never really thought about because that's not who we've sold technology to, we are now bringing digital transformation to them and the company's been been very successful.

01:06:27:20 - 01:06:35:03
Speaker 3
They just get in here and established in the U.S. I feel privileged to have a chance to be part of it and I can't wait to get going. August 1st.

01:06:36:05 - 01:06:53:15
Speaker 2
August 1st. That's awesome, Jimmy. I mean, like, you're breaking down the four walls of HQ and bring in bring in digital transformation to everybody in the organization. That's good. That's awesome. So unbelievable. I'm pumped for you, man. What, are you going to build an office in Boston, you think?

01:06:54:02 - 01:07:18:21
Speaker 3
Well, we're not going to build one, but yes, we are going to we're going to open up an office in Boston, the CEO and founder, his name is Sean Nolan, super inspirational guy, just a real genuine person. He's moving him and his wife and moving from London over here to Boston, somewhere around the Boston area, maybe even Marlborough.

01:07:20:03 - 01:07:42:00
Speaker 3
But yeah, I mean, we're going to we're going to go at it just like, you know what? I learned that when we did Turbo, you know, we were in Burlington for a while and Burlington is a fun place. But when you're in the city and you go out to lunch, you walk out of that building and you just hit your feet, hit the street, you can feel the buzz in the air.

01:07:42:09 - 01:08:02:18
Speaker 3
You know, it's just is a different dynamic of being in a city littered with a lot of professionals. And it's highly competitive. But if you've got a good story to tell and you're not a you know, there's a lot of duplicate technology companies out there and and I was really hoping that I would find something that seems a little bit different.

01:08:03:04 - 01:08:32:03
Speaker 3
That's and it's as simple as it gets in terms of solving a business problem. I mean, the logic around what this company does and how it proves itself and how quickly it proves itself is like something that I haven't really seen. So, yeah, I mean, I'm going to try to enjoy the next week or so, but, but I am ready to rumble on August 1st and it is all about going back to the beginning and just finding the best people we can find.

01:08:32:03 - 01:08:33:08
Speaker 3
And I can't wait.

01:08:33:23 - 01:08:37:10
Speaker 2
To come home. I love it. I'm fired up for you. Check It.

01:08:39:17 - 01:08:40:13
Speaker 3
So anyway.

01:08:41:03 - 01:09:05:05
Speaker 2
Last question, Jimmy. Yeah, so I think I've told you this before, but when we were little, my dad being a hockey coach used to always say to us, J.R. and Bob and Al, there's a lot of people that play hockey, but there's not a lot of people that are hockey players. And he was really like from a young age, we were kind of instilled this idea of being a professional and being a pro.

01:09:05:16 - 01:09:15:23
Speaker 2
So like nowadays with with chip group, when we talk about the highest praise that you can give a salesperson is calling them a pro. What does being a pro mean to you?

01:09:17:09 - 01:09:45:05
Speaker 3
So maybe you'll be surprised by this. Yeah, but I am a good listener and I learn from everybody. And one of the biggest things I think I learned from you at my time when we were at Turbo as customers for life, right. CFLs. And that's metric that probably not a lot of companies track. But I've never let go of it since it came out your mouth and hit my ears.

01:09:45:12 - 01:10:08:18
Speaker 3
And I'll tell you, when you look at somebody, you know, over the course of time, there's a lot that goes into a real professional, right? A lot of it has to do with how successful they are and how consistent they are at hitting their number and doing their job. But in some ways, for the people that are really pros, that's table stakes, right?

01:10:08:18 - 01:10:38:07
Speaker 3
So what's more than that, what's more than that is there also people that open themselves up and are willing to help people around them because people like that who are, you know, wildly successful but also open to help are the people that attract the most people. Right. People want to be around people like that. You know, when you think about the world of sports in my lifetime and I was little too young to remember Bobby Orr.

01:10:38:07 - 01:10:57:10
Speaker 3
I mean, I've seen the videos and all, but like Bobby Orr was on his way out when when, you know, I was a little kid. So I really didn't appreciate it then. But in in my lifetime, when I look at a guy like Patrice Bergeron, you know, five times when he's won the Stanley Cup, should've won more, but whatever.

01:10:57:10 - 01:11:18:23
Speaker 3
At the end of the day, when you hear that guy talk and you watch him, he is the he's a true gentleman. He is like the ultimate human being. Forget about hockey for a second. And there's an element of just doing the right thing when nobody's luck in, you know, holding the door for the for the woman behind you.

01:11:18:23 - 01:11:44:19
Speaker 3
Just it's people that are always looking to make a positive difference. It's the whole kind of pay it forward mentality. Another buddy of mine that I started my sales career next to this, this guy, Keith Cody, who's been at Akamai for 22. But when we would get in the sales bag and we would, you know, the lights will come on and we would spitball till late at night about oh, my God would come up with all these crazy ideas.

01:11:44:19 - 01:12:20:16
Speaker 3
We're like 23, 24. And one of the things he used to always talk about was the Effort Savings Bank. It's like you got to always find an opportunity to make deposits, you got to put in the effort. They all the little things, not just, you know, about deals and deal progression and cold calls, but like opportunities. Mentor people to join the sales and marketing executives of New England to maybe go get your MBA, whatever those things were you making deposits every way you can with all the right intentions, because we all need to make withdrawals.

01:12:21:00 - 01:12:51:23
Speaker 3
And when you need to make withdrawals, the Z there's something there for you or you know, you're bankrupt in a way. Right. So the idea is, is you train yourself to do the good things, to do all the right things. It's beyond the game, right? It's about how you carry yourself. And I'll tell you, the the the true professionals and I'm recruiting one right now for my new company is are the people that have relationships with their customers where they're texting all the time.

01:12:52:12 - 01:13:18:08
Speaker 3
Not because a deal in play because you're just staying in touch with people that you've built a friendship with that is a professional. Oh, you call it on company. I know. Gerry, hold on a second. Bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. Like, to me, I was always in awe of those people because not only were they always at Presidents Club receiving an award, but like, how is that?

01:13:18:23 - 01:13:38:11
Speaker 3
And it is because getting a customer is one thing, keeping them is another thing. And to me that just takes more effort, more everything. But the ones that do it there are always employed. There making a lot of money and they're always loving life. So that that's how I would view that.

01:13:39:10 - 01:13:57:05
Speaker 2
That's I'll say about maybe, oh man, this is going to be required listening for every shift. This is unbelievable, man. Thank you so much, Jimmy. Thank you for. Oh, thank you. In time with us.

01:13:57:07 - 01:14:28:16
Speaker 3
It's an honor and I'm I'm I'm envious of the company you're building and I mean that. I think you and I talked about it. I mean, you know, you're going after a certain faction of the population as in a different way. I spent a lot of time with with these types of people. And there was a book that came out in the nineties called Don't Fire and Fire Them Up, you know, and and business psychology with all of this stuff, you can teach them how to cold call, how to build their resume, how to do all this stuff.

01:14:29:00 - 01:14:50:01
Speaker 3
But at the end of the day, you got to get inspired, find people that give you the butterflies, that make you want more, that you know. Those are the people you want to go to work with every day. You know and and just be friends with them. And those are the people you need to learn from. But if there's no inspiration, it's like a stale donut, you know what I mean?

01:14:50:01 - 01:14:57:16
Speaker 3
You want to be around people that that really make it fun and magical and they're out there and you just got to look for them.

01:14:57:16 - 01:15:02:20
Speaker 2
We're talking to the biggest one right here, somebody. Thank you.

01:15:03:04 - 01:15:13:06
Speaker 3
Thank you, guys. I really appreciate it. And anything I can do to help, just keep me in mind.

01:15:13:06 - 01:15:34:22
Speaker 1
This wraps up this episode of Making Some Change. If you enjoyed this episode, the most meaningful way to say thanks is to submit a review wherever you listen to podcasts. If you're interested in working with us, please come find us at WW Dot Chef Group Dot I.